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  #1  
Unread 04-07-2025, 04:32 PM
Alex Pepple Alex Pepple is offline
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Default Liminal Wings

The Pigeons

                  —At Jama Masjid


Fluttering loose on Delhi’s amber stone,
The courtyard’s pigeons weave their daily wiles,
Like Garuda’s brood claiming heaven’s throne—
The girl in crimson cotton spawns their trials.

Through carmine arches shaped by craftsmen’s dreams,
Her spirit soars beyond minaret prayers,
Where Jatayu’s once grieved in sunlit streams,
And in dawn’s air pigeons swirl its saffron layers.

In murmuration’s squall of silver wings,
Her visions too rise over hoary plains,
Beyond domes where the morning ghazal sings,
Through cardamom clouds and jasmine-scented rains.

Like Krishna’s mount, these birds swarm paradise;
Each feather dipped in heritage and grace,
As evening’s azan threads through misted spice,
Through honeyed courtyard where old faiths embrace.

In this red realm where emperors once trod
On paths inlaid with stories carved in stone,
Her nimbus is incense aloft to God,
As earth and sky in rhymed wingbeat atone.

Beyond all veils where seekers dare to soar,
Past jaali-latticed shadows touched with light,
Discerning what saints have known in their core:
The souls that crest free surge past mortal sight.

Penultimate line was: She learns what saints have always known before:

Last edited by Alex Pepple; 04-12-2025 at 04:15 PM.
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  #2  
Unread 04-07-2025, 09:02 PM
Glenn Wright Glenn Wright is offline
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Hi, Alex

Beautifully evocative of Indian art and religion.

One syntactic nit and a few metric ones:
1. The syntax in S2L2-3 stumped me: “Her spirit soars beyond minaret prayers,/ Where Jatayu’s once grieved in sunlit streams, . . .”. Jatayu’s what? Spirit or prayers?
2. The meter in S1L3 is a bit bumpy. You could make it smoother by dropping “Like” and replacing the comma at the end of S1L2 with either an em-dash or a colon to make the simile a metaphor.
3. In S2L2, replacing “minaret” with “ the muezzin’s” makes the meter smoother.
4. In S2L4, you have a few extra syllables. How about something like: “The pigeons swirl dawn’s air in saffron layers.” ?

I notice that you mix Hindu images (Garuda, Jatayu , Krishna) with Islamic ones (minaret, ghazal, jaali).
In S4 your reference to the courtyard “where old faiths embrace” suggest a harmonious tolerance between Hindus and Muslims when in reality the two faiths were more often at odds, eventually requiring the partition of India and Pakistan in 1947. I wasn’t sure if you intended to explore this conflict.

Glenn

Last edited by Glenn Wright; 04-07-2025 at 09:22 PM.
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  #3  
Unread 04-08-2025, 02:12 AM
Alex Pepple Alex Pepple is offline
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Hello, Glenn,

Thanks again for your attentive read and thoughtful comments!
  1. On Jatayu: Yes, fair point! The poem includes a glossary that I chose not to post to avoid overloading readers, but perhaps I’ll include it after all if there’s enough interest. Jatayu is the noble eagle from the Ramayana who tried to rescue Sita from abduction—he died in the attempt, and that’s what’s being evoked in that line.
  2. I do scan that S1L3 as iambic pentameter, with trochaic to spondaic substitution:
    Like GA|ruDA’S |BROOD CLAIM|ing HEA|ven’s THRONE.
  3. Similarly, for “minaret prayers,” I’m reading it as a feminine line with slight stress variation—with promotion/demotion within ‘minaret’ and relative to ‘prayers’:
    Her SPI|rit SOARS| beYOND| miNA|ret PRAY|ers.
  4. The extra syllable in S2L4 is indeed an anapestic substitution at the line’s start—though I’m still mulling over your version for its flow.
As for the mix of Hindu and Muslim imagery: yes, that’s absolutely intentional. Jama Masjid and the Old Delhi area it inhabits have long been a place where Indo-Islamic architecture, rituals, and daily life intermingle with Hindu traditions. One sees this in the bustling alleys surrounding the mosque—where Hindu temples stand near Mughal mosques, and where languages, music, cuisine, and even fashion reflect a rich shared heritage. While tensions have certainly existed historically (and reached tragic peaks during Partition), the poem gestures toward a spiritual and cultural intersection that continues to define much of Delhi’s historical core.

Really appreciate your engaged and generous reading!

Cheers,
…Alex
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  #4  
Unread 04-08-2025, 10:37 AM
Max Goodman Max Goodman is offline
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This is sonically lush, a pleasure to the ear, and full of striking thoughts (some of them noted below).

Despite all the color words, there are few strong visual images. Most of the description remains abstract. That the arches are shaped by dreams, for instance, is a lovely thought, but doesn't show me the arches.

Action, too, is described abstractly. I guess that the trials the girl spawns (L4) are fights over birdseed she distributes. I don't have a lot of confidence that I'm guessing correctly.

At the end, I wonder how the girl has learned what she's learned about souls. It's another lovely thought; it would mean more to me if I felt the poem had shown me what she's experienced, so I, in the final line, learn as she has.

FWIW.
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Unread 04-08-2025, 12:45 PM
Glenn Wright Glenn Wright is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alex Pepple View Post
Her SPI|rit SOARS| beYOND| miNA|ret PRAY|ers.
All of the dictionaries I checked put the stress on the last syllable of “minaret.” Is there an alternative pronunciation that I don’t know about?

Glenn
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Unread 04-08-2025, 05:21 PM
Alex Pepple Alex Pepple is offline
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Max, thank you for reading and for your thoughtful comments. I’m glad the sonics came through for you, even if the poem felt abstract overall. That’s something I’ll be thinking more about—how to introduce greater concreteness or specificity that deepens the emotional or experiential impact. I appreciate your observation about the girl’s learning arc too—if there are specific areas or lines where you feel more grounding or detail might enhance the payoff, I’d be eager to hear them.

Glenn, you're absolutely right about the dictionary stress on "minaret." I was looking at it through a relative stress lens, à la Timothy Steele—so while the primary stress is on the last syllable (minaRET), in the phrase "minaret prayers", the stress on PRAY- can dominate -RET in natural speech. That would allow for a reading like: mina-RET PRAY-ers, or even (with a light promotion of the second syllable) mi-NA-ret PRAY-ers—depending on delivery and cadence. It's definitely a flexible moment, metrically speaking, and I appreciate the chance to think it through out loud.

Thanks again to both of you for the close readings!

Cheers,
...Alex
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Unread 04-08-2025, 06:09 PM
Max Goodman Max Goodman is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alex Pepple View Post
Max,... I appreciate your observation about the girl’s learning arc too—if there are specific areas or lines where you feel more grounding or detail might enhance the payoff, I’d be eager to hear them.
Hi, Alex. I wish I could point to specific places where the learning arc could be more strongly supported, but I'm not sure where in the poem the learning is meant to be shown. Now that I've been nudged toward being more specific myself, I realize I'm also confused about what the girl learns. Does the fact that "the souls that crest free surge past mortal sight" imply that less free souls can be seen by mortals? Does her learning of these free-cresting souls' invisibility imply that she had expected to be able to see them? Is it the existence of some souls freer than others that she learns? What shows her this? I suppose it's a more general feeling of contentment/elation that she gains from this place and I'm taking "learns" too literally.

Last edited by Max Goodman; 04-08-2025 at 06:12 PM.
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  #8  
Unread 04-09-2025, 02:25 PM
Alex Pepple Alex Pepple is offline
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Hello, Max,

Thanks for not minding the nudge! And truthfully, it wasn’t directed at you alone—I was hoping to invite input from anyone who might have specifics to throw into the mix. That said, your thoughtful line of questioning is actually more helpful than you might realize. It’s prompting me to reconsider how and where the speaker’s (or the girl’s) learning or realization might be more clearly grounded or earned.

I really appreciate your continued engagement with this, Max!

Cheers,
…Alex
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  #9  
Unread 04-12-2025, 04:13 PM
Alex Pepple Alex Pepple is offline
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Thank you all again for your thoughtful and generous feedback, especially, Glenn and Max!

Max’s sharp questions about what the girl might have expected to see, and how she arrives at her knowledge, gave me a lot to consider. While the scene’s realism remains somewhat dream-infused or mystical, I do hope the surrounding stanzas evoke a spiritual sensibility through the pigeons’ rise, the sensory layering of incense, call to prayer, mythic allusions, and the architectural space charged with memory and ritual. My intention was to have insight arise through immersion—not exposition—so that both the girl and the reader might sense revelation unfolding through presence rather than proof.

With that in mind, I’ve slightly adjusted the closing lines to open that discernment to a broader scope—no longer confined only to the girl, but gesturing toward a shared spiritual awareness that transcends the individual. The final lines now read:
Discerning what saints have known in their core—
The souls that crest free surge past mortal sight.
I hope this version better suggests a universal moment of perception, one that resonates beyond the immediate experience of a single figure.

That said, I fully accept that this insight might still benefit from greater anchoring—or even a clarifying image or two earlier on—so I’ll continue exploring what might enhance that without sacrificing the poem’s atmosphere.

Thanks again, everyone, for helping me see this poem more clearly!

Cheers,
…Alex
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