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  #1  
Unread 03-01-2021, 11:53 PM
Golias Golias is online now
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Default Misery

Misery

Some poets boast their misery,
others prize their pain.
The former love like company,
the latter to complain.

I'm comfortable; my world is fine.
Nothing bothers me.
Good life, good kids good health are mine,
and wealth enough for three.

But in recent poems I’ve tried,
diligently though vainly,
to put complacency aside
and write of misery mainly.

If only I can be like those
who agonize in verse,
perhaps my lines will weep like theirs
or hopefully much worse.


Since this poem is being read but not commented upon I will carry the weeping theme on for a few weeks and see if anyone has anything to contribute to a discussion of pessimistic versus optimistic . In my reading experience the former seems to prevail. Why? Are a majority of poets sad people? Is is misery more poetic than happiness? ------Golias

Last edited by Golias; 03-10-2021 at 12:57 PM.
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  #2  
Unread 03-10-2021, 05:19 AM
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Daniel Kemper Daniel Kemper is offline
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Hello!

For me, it feels like it's easier to write an engaging sad poem above the other basic emotions (mad, glad, scared), too. One reason might be that when the poet is happy, the poet is too busy being happy to write a poem. But sadness...

Here are a few thoughts:
[The former love like company,]
The logic of this line is a bit bumpy to me. I see the parallelism you are going for. Guess it took me a bit to parse "like" as modifying "company" and not "love".

[Good life, good kids good health are mine,]
It's uncommon to see "are" used in this way and [life, kids, etc] as subjects and self mentioned after the verb, rather than self as subject [i] and "have" as the verb and [kids, etc] as object.

[and wealth enough for three.]
Bad on me, I read "three" as "thee" the first couple times through. (facepalm)

[If only I can be like those
who agonize in verse,
perhaps my lines will weep like theirs
or hopefully much worse.?]
My favorite part of the poem -totally- . I liked "lines weeping like theirs", but most of all I liked the wordplay on "much worse"

Hope these thoughts are useful,
Daniel


Since this poem is being read but not commented upon I will carry the weeping theme on for a few weeks and see if anyone has anything to contribute to a discussion of pessimistic versus optimistic . In my reading experience the former seems to prevail. Why? Are a majority of poets sad people? Is is misery more poetic than happiness? ------Golias
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  #3  
Unread 03-10-2021, 09:07 AM
Golias Golias is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Daniel Kemper View Post
Hello!

For me, it feels like it's easier to write an engaging sad poem above the other basic emotions (mad, glad, scared), too. One reason might be that when the poet is happy, the poet is too busy being happy to write a poem. But sadness...

Here are a few thoughts:
[The former love like company,]
The logic of this line is a bit bumpy to me. I see the parallelism you are going for. Guess it took me a bit to parse "like" as modifying "company" and not "love".

[Good life, good kids good health are mine,]
It's uncommon to see "are" used in this way and [life, kids, etc] as subjects and self mentioned after the verb, rather than self as subject [i] and "have" as the verb and [kids, etc] as object.

[and wealth enough for three.]
Bad on me, I read "three" as "thee" the first couple times through. (facepalm)

[If only I can be like those
who agonize in verse,
perhaps my lines will weep like theirs
or hopefully much worse.?]
My favorite part of the poem -totally- . I liked "lines weeping like theirs", but most of all I liked the wordplay on "much worse"

Hope these thoughts are useful,
Daniel


Since this poem is being read but not commented upon I will carry the weeping theme on for a few weeks and see if anyone has anything to contribute to a discussion of pessimistic versus optimistic . In my reading experience the former seems to prevail. Why? Are a majority of poets sad people? Is is misery more poetic than happiness? ------Golias
Thanks, Daniel,
I wondered whether oem might have offended our numerous writers of weepy verse here on TDE, but I am glad you liked the satire. In any event I am proceeding to post some of my own attempts to write weepers . There is one being nitpicked now. I'd be interested to learn what you think of it. See "Redemption."

Wiley
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  #4  
Unread 03-10-2021, 10:30 AM
conny conny is offline
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i don't think its true. especially L.2. maybe in some
alternate universe but in reality pain just isn't prized.
not by anyone. sexually maybe, but poetically ?
no chance.

the rest fails to launch i'm afraid. the poem feels like it
wants to say something insightful, but even the poem
doesn't know what it is.




.................................................. ...............................
UOTE=Golias;461362]Misery

Some poets boast their misery,
others prize their pain.
The former love like company,
the latter to complain.

I'm comfortable; my world is fine.
Nothing bothers me.
Good life, good kids good health are mine,
and wealth enough for three.

But in recent poems Iíve tried,
diligently though vainly,
to put complacency aside
and write of misery mainly.

If only I can be like those
who agonize in verse,
perhaps my lines will weep like theirs
or hopefully much worse.?


Since this poem is being read but not commented upon I will carry the weeping theme on for a few weeks and see if anyone has anything to contribute to a discussion of pessimistic versus optimistic . In my reading experience the former seems to prevail. Why? Are a majority of poets sad people? Is is misery more poetic than happiness? ------Golias[/quote]
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  #5  
Unread 03-10-2021, 04:25 PM
Golias Golias is online now
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Conny, I do not need to defend this poem or its purpose. Being myself in a situation not far fro that you depict in your very affecting poem about Iris living alone in the flats ( I assume the Red Road Flats now demolished) I feel that, if we can, we should use whatever skill at versifying we have to brighten the lives of our children, friends and readers all, and our own lives as well. I understand it may be easier to write about our own sorrows and feelings about the sorrows of others, but is that a good thing? Incidentally the last stanza of the poem is a statement. I don;t know why someone attached a question mark to it in some of the copies.

Conny, you mention elsewhere Tim Murphy who was also a good friend of mine. He wrote many cheerful, beautiful poems about people, his dogs and the world around him. I can never forget this one which makes me always happy to remember Tim.

Eidyllion
I am selling my farms
to build a butterfly barn
where multicolored swarms
will storm the glassy dome
to greet the midnight sun,
and that will be my home.

What could be lovlier?

Wiley

Last edited by Golias; 03-10-2021 at 08:57 PM.
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  #6  
Unread 03-11-2021, 05:06 AM
conny conny is offline
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ah yes, indeed. that poem is wonderful.

and thankyou for saying that about my poem on the
other channel, very kind. As to circumstances i'm sorry
to hear what you say about isolation which i know can
be very difficult for lots of people. Iris actually reads
quite a bit which i know helps her; and i'm sure for many
is a way of remaining in touch with ones imagination.
creatively also, as i said before, having a creative impulse
is commendable and certainly a good way of keeping the
mind open for business.

Mr.Murphy was a great presence on this site and
sorely missed. and Mr. Sullivan also. After he passed
i think i rather gave up here for a long time. also
when i heard that Tim Murphy had died i decided
not come back here until i was absolutely ready. my
last hiatus here was just a bit less than 5 years.
i have many drafts i'd like both of them to comment
on. but happily, because of being here, i have
a pretty good idea of the standards they would expect;
of anyone- and of themselves. any opinions on this page
in particular is tempered both by Murphy and Sullivan..


cheers.
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  #7  
Unread 03-11-2021, 06:43 AM
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Daniel Kemper Daniel Kemper is offline
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Well, pain is a general term and persons are specific. The love of pain descends into a philosophical and/or linguistic argument pretty quickly.

Particular persons most definitely like particular pains --especially for particular lengths of time. Melissa Etheridge for one would testify, "Precious Pain". Keats' too loved his [M/melancholy] at times. But think of sadness as pain and the widespread taste for weepy movies-- they are certainly enjoyed for their ability to make a person sad-- but again it's sought for a particular length of time.

What happens is that eventually someone observes, "Well, the person is actually getting pleasure from their pain; they aren't loving the pain." And that philosophical tangle can go on forever.

It's key to note the difference between discomfort/damage and enjoyment. That is, it's important to study the difference between pleasure and happiness. As a general launch off point, consider the addict who lives a life of misery, which does not abate when they are able to get their high. They feel an extreme pleasure, but remain wracked by despair. That launch off point is just for clarity in terminology, that pleasure and happiness can become divided. As can displeasure and unhappiness.

I believe that for each and every one of us, poems have not all come to the lips and fingertips like butter, but that there's struggle often involved and that many of those struggles come to be enjoyed. They come to be enjoyed for the struggle itself, then later it produces a sense of worth and accomplishment, but is not separable from that afterglow.

Dis-pleasurable stimulus is often sought and enjoyed. The mood of melancholy poetry, written or read, is a favorite drink among many who intoxicate themselves on verse occasionally.
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  #8  
Unread 03-11-2021, 07:15 AM
Golias Golias is online now
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Good Morning Conny,
MY experience here has been, in some respects, about the same as yours I cane on around the turn of the century when I was operating a poetry mag called The Susquehanna Quarterly. Tim was a frequent participant there as we had a pretty good readership. Dr. Bob Mezy was my co-editor. I posted my own better poems here and with nautical data supplied by Tin and Alan Sullivan, both sailors, I "won" one of the sonnet bake-offs with one of the two or three best poems of my life, "Caravel," the discussion of which by Richard Wilbur and others is still available in the archives.
My posting day is Tuesday. Next comes the most depressing poem I ever wrote, which may make it funny. After that some better from my accumulation of one-per-day poems . I hope you will post more of yours, as I would like very much to read them.

Best,
Wiley

Last edited by Golias; 03-11-2021 at 07:19 AM.
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  #9  
Unread 03-11-2021, 07:58 AM
Golias Golias is online now
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Hello Daniell,
I am really impressed by your delicate analysis of the effects of pain and displeasure on poetry writing resulting from those emotions. I think your understanding developed beyond the point most poetry writers eve reach. Perhaps it is not important to very many. Keats seem to be a popular example, Sylvia Plath more recently.

Wiley
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  #10  
Unread 03-27-2021, 04:06 AM
Gena Gruz Gena Gruz is offline
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Nice poem. Very sad. G
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