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Unread 03-30-2021, 09:38 AM
Barry J. M. Thomson Barry J. M. Thomson is offline
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Question Some questions, have you any advice for a new member?

Updated, the post is finally finished, after hours of editing, originally intended as a query with genuine questions, which a poem I'm relatively happy with now, developed naturally in the midst of unintentionally, it's still primarily intended as a query post, that's what it was created for, but as a side note, you are welcome to comment on my fluke poem if you want to, which came about quite by accident, I just went with the flow of it when it hit me, but in any case, thanks to everyone for welcoming me into the forum here, sincerely B.

Edit - the full poem as it is just now, uncompleted, and unedited, is posted at the bottom of my original query post, sorry you guys were confused by witnessing the creation process, as an autistic with skizoaffective disorder, my mind is a pretty chaotic place to exist at times, so I can only imagine what its like to witness from the outside lol, thanks for your honest and helpful responses, sincerely, B.

Edited a little before posting, the reason, you'll see.

Hello all, I'm a new member here on the forum, and I have loved poetry "ever since I truly discovered it", in June of 2019.

I can't post my poems yet, as I am required to give positive responses on others work first, that's fine, but I wonder if someone could explain the etiquette a little for me.

"I have tried a few approaches", from offering hints and suggestions, to displaying "formatting examples within the poets work".

But could someone briefly tell me the generally accepted modes of response, and the best way to apply such?.

Sometimes I feel the best way to show suggestions, at least "of commas and spacing", etc, is "by visual example", but I wonder if "that takes away some creative process from the creator", or upsets them in some way, as "even such trivial things, can have a potent effect on the work".

I like to think I would be ok "with such in my own poems", to some extent, but I do feel that perhaps many poets are likely "to want their work to be wholly their own", and would rather receive small ideas, "to work into their writing themselves", if indeed at all.

Anyway, is there an acceptable form of visual example?, or is it best just to keep suggestions of any sort to a minimum?, and where suggestions are worth offering, what is the best way to go about it?.

As for myself, I have two quick questions, one, how do I set my signature?, as "I can't find the tool to do it".

And two, when "I first came to appreciate poetry", about two "years ago", over the course of a few months, I wrote about 30 original poems, of reasonable quality for a casual writer, at least without having much formal education beforehand I think.

But after a mental health crisis, I deleted most of my poems, they were written in a variety of lengths, themes, and styles, but I have only managed to remember several of my shorter and simpler poems.

I get a sense that "most of my early works are gone for good", as I just "can't reconnect to the spark that created them", and "struggle to remember", more than a "few lines or stanzas, out of order".

Edit - dibs on "most of my works are gone for good" "can't reconnect to the spark that created them" "struggle to remember", " few lines or stanzas, out of order".

It's a shame, because if nothing else, they were unique and original, often receiving comments like "great lines" "powerful" "beautiful" "a fresh style of writing", "wow, this made me feel (insert positive expletives here)", etc, from other casual writers of course, but still, "not bad for a pleb".

And I would very much like "to have the originals somewhere at hand", perhaps "to modify or improve upon them, with fresh perspective", "but my mind is blank of them".

Any tips on remembering or re writing them?, I'm a little scared to do it from scratch, "concerned ill lose the magic of my originals in the process", but do you think it's worth "starting over again from the concepts?".

Also, this seems to have caused writers block, "as I began my writing journey, I felt inspiration and passion often", "which fueled the furnace of my intellectual workshop".

Although, that is something in itself, that I think I will write my next poem about lol, so I guess I still get a little inspired sometimes, dibs on the words "as I began my writing journey, I felt inspiration and passion often" "which fueled the furnace of my workshop".

But still, "I struggle to get over my missing poems". and "gravitate towards struggling to recover them", instead of "writing original pieces with passion again?", Im "stuck in a lost past I can never recover".

You know, "perhaps writing this experience is the next step", "grieving the loss and putting it to rest, once and for all".

After all, the poem seems to be writing itself lol, the "words just need a little seasoning, to become fully fledged poetry in their own right".

But still, I would appreciate advice from those who can relate, "how do I get the heart of my poetry back?".

And how do I stop it "from blocking my passion, causing endless writers block?", "should I rewrite my poems?, or move on without them?".

All advice is welcome and appreciated, and sorry for the silly dibs, but I feel like perhaps "I can mould some of these conceptual coincidences, into the first inspired work I've had in ages", perhaps calling it something like "furnace of creation" and perhaps writing something like "rekindling the passion, igniting the flame, alive in the furnace once again".

"It's kind of wild, I create concepts like this, while seeking advice on writers block", but I am glad I decided to give this forum a shot, "It appears to have benefited me already", now I just have to "take my material to the anvil, forge a new story from the flames", it may be the first poem I share here, "since it was created here, perhaps erratic sphere, is the fuel required, to ignite the fire", "words forged amidst the heat of adversity".

Anyway, well see, sincerely, B.

Hi guys, I'll read your responses, and answer clearly soon, but first ill answer the dibs thing, this was genuinely a query post seeking answers, which slowly a poem started developing naturally in the midst of, I hadn't formatted it yet, so began going a little crazy with dibs, to stake the words I was going to mould into a new poem, but with little modification, and quite by accident, the poem as it is turned into something I'm relatively happy with, and perhaps I only need to tweak it slightly.

But I understand the confusion and distracting nature of the dibs, so now that the poem is mostly complete, developed alongside my genuine questions, I will remove them from the forum post, but will keep them for my personal records, as this was a lot of fun, a spontaneous fluke, and though completely unintentional, I enjoyed it a lot.

But it is worth noting, it was never my intention to create a poem with this post, and I still seek answers to my questions, but anyway, I hope this clears up any confusion.

The poem I feel, is now mostly complete, after hours of editing, so if you want to read it as it will most likely appear when finished, only read the quoted text, and if you only want to answer the questions I have, read the post as a whole, without focusing too much on the quoted text.

The title I'm playing with for my poem just now is "in furnace of fire, the forge of creation.".

But anyway, thanks for reading, and for your responses, this was a lot of fun, B.

The unedited poem as it is just now, that I am still working on completing properly.

1. In Furnace Of Fire, The Forge Of Creation. unedited

ever since I truly discovered it,
I have tried a few approaches,
formatting examples within the poets work,
of commas and spacing,
by visual example,
that takes away some creative process from the creator,
even such trivial things, can have a potent effect on the work,
with such in my own poems,
to want their work to be wholly their own,
to work into their writing themselves,
I can't find the tool to do it,
I first came to appreciate poetry,
years ago,
most of my early works are gone for good,
can't reconnect to the spark that created them,
struggle to remember,
few lines or stanzas, out of order,
most of my works are gone for good,
can't reconnect to the spark that created them,
struggle to remember,
few lines or stanzas, out of order,
great lines,
powerful,
beautiful,
a fresh style of writing,
wow, this made me feel (insert positive expletives here),
not bad for a pleb,
to have the originals somewhere at hand,
to modify or improve upon them, with fresh perspective,
but my mind is blank of them,
concerned ill lose the magic of my originals in the process,
starting over again from the concepts?,
as I began my writing journey, I felt inspiration and passion often,
which fueled the furnace of my intellectual workshop,
as I began my writing journey, I felt inspiration and passion often,
which fueled the furnace of my workshop,
I struggle to get over my missing poems,
gravitate towards struggling to recover them,
writing original pieces with passion again?,
stuck in a lost past I can never recover,
perhaps writing this experience is the next step,
grieving the loss and putting it to rest,
once and for all,
words just need a little seasoning, to become fully fledged poetry in their own right,
how do I get the heart of my poetry back?,
from blocking my passion, causing endless writers block?,
should I rewrite my poems?, or move on without them?,
I can mould some of these conceptual coincidences, into the first inspired work I've had in ages,
furnace of creation,
rekindling the passion, igniting the flame, alive in the furnace once again,
It's kind of wild, I create concepts like this, while seeking advice on writers block,
It appears to have benefited me already,
take my material to the anvil, forge a new story from the flames,
since it was created here, perhaps erratic sphere, is the fuel required, to ignite the fire,
words forged amidst the heat of adversity.

Last edited by Barry J. M. Thomson; 03-30-2021 at 02:32 PM.
  #2  
Unread 03-30-2021, 10:23 AM
Julie Steiner Julie Steiner is offline
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Welcome, Barry!

A few tips:

Using the word "dibs" 47 times in a single post is very distracting. The way you are using it is new to me (perhaps a Scots/American cultural gap?), and I can't figure out what you want it to mean in this context. While I'm focused on puzzling that out, I can't give full attention to what you're saying.

It seems like a verbal tic that might feel natural in conversation, but in written form it's just annoying noise obscuring the signal. I think you'll communicate better without it.

(The use of quotation marks might also be a bit excessive, for some people's taste. I spend so much time wondering why you're using them that I lose focus on your actual message.)

On forms of critique:

Sometimes rewriting someone else's poem to show what you mean is the most convenient way of communicating your point, but if you do this, it's best to do so sparingly--for example, no more than one or two excerpts of the poem at a time.

The point of workshopping is not to make the poem the best it can be. The point is to make the poet the best they can be, and that can't happen unless they struggle with things for themselves. It's like the old story of the well-meaning child kindly helping a butterfly emerge from the cocoon, only to find that the butterfly can't take flight because it needed that physical effort in order for the wings to deploy properly. So it's better to suggest possible directions that the poet might take things, rather than rewrite.

On lost work:

I've accidentally lost years of my poetry several times (which one might think would make me vow to get my backup routine more rigorous, but so far it hasn't).

I think it's a waste of effort and energy to try to reproduce what the person you were then wrote. That person doesn't exist anymore. Put your energy and effort into what the person you are now wants and needs to write. It's fine to write about the same memories as before, but understand that the resulting poem is likely to be quite different, because you are.

On signatures:

Most people here don't use them, but the tiny "guidelines" link in the top left corner of most pages on the site has handy advice on all sorts of things, like how to insert tabs and other horizontal blank spaces (which are otherwise edited out of the display so that the left margin appears flush). I would suggest looking there.

Again, welcome!
Julie

Last edited by Julie Steiner; 03-30-2021 at 10:29 AM.
  #3  
Unread 03-30-2021, 10:44 AM
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Allen Tice Allen Tice is offline
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Wottheheck is dibs? All responses don’t have to be positive. When you get a negative blast or real dump, there’s usually a reason—and sometimes it even makes sense (certain members excepted). Watch and wait. Welcome. This place is like a sandbox, all sorts show up, including cats that just want to shit in the sand and leave. What Julie said.
  #4  
Unread 03-30-2021, 10:58 AM
Max Goodman Max Goodman is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Barry J. M. Thomson View Post
I can't post my poems yet, as I am required to give positive responses on others work first
That's true as long as you don't understand "positive" to mean complimentary. Though you'll often find old-timers here lamenting the rigor of bygone days, I think this is still a place where honesty is valued. And, hell, if anyone is going to be pissed off because you're honest about something they've posted for critique, let 'em be. That sounds argumentative; I just don't want you to think the rule is that we don't want to see your poems until you've said nice things about ours.

As to the lost poems, trust that what was valuable in them will reemerge in a new, more mature form. What doesn't reemerge there is, in any case, no way to recapture.

It may be fruitful, as you've suggseted, to write about the loss.

Welcome to Eratosphere.

Last edited by Max Goodman; 03-30-2021 at 10:59 AM. Reason: cross-posted with Allen, who is quicker and less long-winded
  #5  
Unread 03-30-2021, 12:33 PM
E. Shaun Russell E. Shaun Russell is offline
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Part of me thinks the OP is an A.I.

Part of me thinks the post itself is a poem.

Part of me is sincerely wondering which one of these acronyms for dibs applies. (My money's on Dual Ion Beam Sputtering).

Beyond that, I've got nothing.
  #6  
Unread 03-30-2021, 12:37 PM
Barry J. M. Thomson Barry J. M. Thomson is offline
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Hi guys, I'll read your responses, and answer clearly soon, but first ill answer the dibs thing, this was genuinely a query post seeking answers, which slowly a poem started developing naturally in the midst of, I hadn't formatted it yet, so began going a little crazy with dibs, to stake the words I was going to mould into a new poem, but with little modification, and quite by accident, the poem as it is turned into something I'm relatively happy with, and perhaps I only need to tweak it slightly.

But I understand the confusion and distracting nature of the dibs, so now that the poem is mostly complete, developed alongside my genuine questions, I will remove them from the forum post, but will keep them for my personal records, as this was a lot of fun, a spontaneous fluke, and though completely unintentional, I enjoyed it a lot.

But it is worth noting, it was never my intention to create a poem with this post, and I still seek answers to my questions, but anyway, I hope this clears up any confusion.

The poem I feel, is now mostly complete, after hours of editing, so if you want to read it as it will most likely appear when finished, only read the quoted text, and if you only want to answer the questions I have, read the post as a whole, without focusing too much on the quoted text.

The title I'm playing with for my poem just now is "in furnace of fire, the forge of creation.".

But anyway, thanks for reading, and for your responses, this was a lot of fun, B.

Edit - the full poem as it is just now, uncompleted, and unedited, is posted at the bottom of my original query post, sorry you guys were confused by witnessing the creation process, as an autistic with skizoaffective disorder, my mind is a pretty chaotic place to exist at times, so I can only imagine what its like to witness from the outside lol, thanks for your honest and helpful responses, sincerely, B.

Last edited by Barry J. M. Thomson; 03-30-2021 at 02:31 PM.
  #7  
Unread 03-30-2021, 12:42 PM
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Allen Tice Allen Tice is offline
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Shaun, you rock.
  #8  
Unread 03-30-2021, 01:19 PM
Julie Steiner Julie Steiner is offline
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Ah. I get the quotation marks and dibs now. A bit like the copyright notices that many new poets slap at the bottom of their work. It may reassure you to know that written works enjoy copyright protection without such declarations.

Since the quoted portions seem to be lines from a poem, I would give one more piece of advice.

Personally, I would be more interested in a poem that I eventually figured out was about the loss of writing of some sort--maybe of poems, maybe of love letters, and maybe even just using the writing as a symbol for a lost relationship--than in a poem that flatly told me that it was about lost poems. The openness to possible interpretations is what makes poetry poetry, for me.

If you want your writing to convey precisely what you mean to say, and nothing else, prose seems more suited to that.

If you want your writing to present readers with clues that they are then free to draw their own conclusions from, and free to feel their own feelings about, that's a poem.

Best regards,
Julie

Last edited by Julie Steiner; 03-30-2021 at 01:23 PM. Reason: typos
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Unread 03-30-2021, 02:46 PM
Barry J. M. Thomson Barry J. M. Thomson is offline
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Hi Julie, thanks for your responses, your honesty, and your helpful suggestions.

I have written some poetry as you describe it, but as for this poem, or poetic story if you prefer, it is it's own creation, coming about unplanned, and unintentially, it represents to me a moment of spontaneity, telling a story from personal perspective, in some sort of poetic form, I'll probably never create anything like it again.

but regardless, I have years to experiment with all sorts of other styles, perhaps some more appreciable to different audiences than others, but even if that's not the case, I can't let pleasing other people be a determining factor in my own creativity, as long as it pleases me, that's what matters, though others are welcome to enjoy such if they can.

Generally though, people either like what I write as I wrote it, or they don't, but in any case, I think this one was meant specifically for me.

But having said that, to be clear, I am open to critique and helpful suggestions, I'm always willing to learn something new, and see things from other perspectives, perhaps such feedback itself can inspire me to write something one day?, who knows, cheers.

Last edited by Barry J. M. Thomson; 03-30-2021 at 02:57 PM.
  #10  
Unread 03-30-2021, 03:18 PM
Barry J. M. Thomson Barry J. M. Thomson is offline
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To Allen and Shaun, thank you for your candour, I will take what you said on board.

However, I feel it's important to note, that what you originally witnessed, was just the unfiltered creation process as it was still ongoing.

I would like to think, now that my post is complete, with everything having been explained, including my first draft of such a spontaneous piece, created completely without intentional design of any sort, things have rather improved since your first response?.

As far as I can tell, my post as a whole reads much better now overall, so I would appreciate a second take from you both, if you should feel like it, and regardless of what you may or may not think of my posts, then or now, I welcome your honesty, but I think it is at least fair to say, that the post is not in the same condition as it was when you first came across it, is that not so?, thanks again, sincerely, B.
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