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  #1  
Unread 06-22-2022, 03:46 PM
Max Goodman Max Goodman is offline
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Default a favorite (obscure?) poem quoted by a favorite novelist

Is this poem more familiar than I thought? If anyone knows, my friends at Eratosphere will.

In John Barth's Coming Soon!!!, which I'm just getting around to reading, three characters all recognize a poem. These people are readers, and two are married to each other (and so likely to share poems they like with each other), but I still found this odd. I had thought the poem--a favorite of mine--rather obscure.

The abbreviations for the characters will be a bit confusing, but the poem's context should be clear:

Quote:
... But it was a poet our N.A. then quoted, the late and by-the-muse-much-lamented Philip Larkin: "So the shit in the shuttered chateau/Who does his five hundred words..."
"Then parts out the rest of the day," the N.W.'s wife joyously picked up, and the pair together "Between bathing and booze and birds...!"
"...Is far off as ever," the senoir themof then reminded the junior....
I find this surprising. Thoughts?
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  #2  
Unread 06-24-2022, 08:05 AM
Max Goodman Max Goodman is offline
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At the risk of bumping a thread in which no one has any interest, I'll try to be clearer about what I'm asking:

Without looking it up, do you recognize the poem? Do you know how the poem continues (would you be able to pick it up as these characters do)?

So the shit in the shuttered chateau
Who does his five hundred words
Then parts out the rest of the day
Between bathing and booze and birds
Is far off as ever
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  #3  
Unread 06-24-2022, 08:19 AM
John Isbell John Isbell is offline
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Hi Max,

I like Larkin and have I think read through his collected, but I have no memory of that poem whatever. OTOH, the language you cited sounded a bit labored and I have my doubts about your author’s believability.

Cheers,
John
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  #4  
Unread 06-25-2022, 11:33 PM
Max Goodman Max Goodman is offline
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Thanks, John. That's at least one reader's corroboration that the poem isn't well-known.

It is a Larkin poem--and a good one.

I suppose it is Barth's language (not Larkin's) you object to. Barth certainly has his own voice--one of the joys of reading him. This out-of-context excerpt doesn't do him justice.

Thanks again.
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  #5  
Unread 06-26-2022, 12:04 AM
John Isbell John Isbell is offline
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Hi Max,

Yup, the Larkin sounds fine - I just draw a blank. Barth may need more context, as you say.

Cheers,
John
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  #6  
Unread 06-26-2022, 05:16 AM
Matt Q Matt Q is offline
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Hi Max,

I read that the N.A. gives the first line and and N.W.'s wife the second, then "the pair together" (N.A. and N.W.'s wife) speak the third line in unison. Also that the narrator recognises the poem. So, the narrator, the N.A., and the N.W.'s wife seem to be the three who know the poem and the latter two know it well enough to recite part of a stanza.

I got a bit confused when you say, "two are married to each other (and so likely to share poems they like with each other)". Presumably you mean N.W. and N.W's wife. But I'm not sure of the relevance of that, since -- at least in the passage you quote, I don't see any indication that N.W. knows the poem. If I'm misunderstanding/misreading, and the two reciting the poem together are married, it doesn't seem that strange that they'd both know the same poem well and it wouldn't have to be a well-known poem for it to a be a personal favourite of theirs. Maybe it has some significance to them.

If they're not married and they know the poem independently of their friendship and haven't previously discussed it, I'd agree that it sees like quite a coincidence they both know it well enough to quote it.

On the other hand, if they're long-standing friends with literary interests, perhaps it's not the first time the poem has been discussed. Or perhaps one of them has previously introduced it to the other. If N.A. quotes a less-well-known poem already knowing that N.W's wife knows and likes it, that's very different (in terms of odds) to the N.A pulling out a less-well-known poem at random and the N.W's wife also knowing it.

Anyway, to answer your actual question: I recognised it as a Larkin poem without looking it up. Though I wouldn't have been able to join in the recital, and or recall the title. But that stanza, in particular, is quite striking and memorable, I think, and very Larkin.

Matt

Last edited by Matt Q; 06-26-2022 at 05:43 AM.
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  #7  
Unread 06-27-2022, 12:34 AM
Max Goodman Max Goodman is offline
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Thanks, Matt!

(N.W. is the last of the three speakers in the disorienting out-of-context passage I quoted. Clearly I found the perfect unhappy medium, providing just enough context to confuse readers even more than if I hadn't provided any.)
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  #8  
Unread 07-07-2022, 01:02 AM
R. S. Gwynn's Avatar
R. S. Gwynn R. S. Gwynn is offline
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"The Life with the Hole in It"

I didn't recognize it either.
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