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  #31  
Unread 04-07-2021, 08:20 AM
Yves S L Yves S L is offline
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That historical approach to a word implies everybody is equally influenced by their social environments, or something like everybody is equally unaware of their own minds to observe how words were first learnt and applied and how the application of words influence their own minds.

I remember taking 5 years to learn how to define one word. I can recall the context in which I first learned the word, the meanings, associations, memories, and emotional interpretations I first applied to it, the reasoning behind why the original interpretations of the word was incorrect, the reasoning why similar words in the English langage do not have good dictionary definitions, a reasoning of why and how the lack of good dictionary definitions might influence other people's minds, and finally the reasoning of how and why to properly define the word relative to my own first hand experience/subjective judgement, and the finally understanding why few other people would understand what the word implies. However, I think I have just began to approach the word.

Though it is not directly similar to what I am referring to above, this man's experience of learning Chinese demonstrates a bottom up approach to defining a word which has analogies to what I dand described above (already posted this video in this thread): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j9BJRE4r46g

Summary: if you want to know the influence of a word on your mind, then you would need some degree of self-awareness/mindfulness, because not everyone reacts similarly to similar words irrespective of the origins and historical journey of a given word.
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  #32  
Unread 04-07-2021, 08:38 AM
W T Clark W T Clark is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Yves S L View Post
That historical approach to a word implies everybody is equally influenced by their social environments, or something like everybody is equally unaware of their own minds to observe how words were first learnt and applied and how the application of words influence their own minds.

I remember taking 5 years to learn how to define one word. I can recall the context in which I first learned the word, the meanings, associations, memories, and emotional interpretations I first applied to it, the reasoning behind why the original interpretations of the word was incorrect, the reasoning why similar words in the English langage do not have good dictionary definitions, a reasoning of why and how the lack of good dictionary definitions might influence other people's minds, and finally the reasoning of how and why to properly define the word relative to my own first hand experience/subjective judgement, and the finally understanding why few other people would understand what the word implies. However, I think I have just began to approach the word.

Though it is not directly similar to what I am referring to above, this man's experience of learning Chinese demonstrates a bottom up approach to defining a word which has analogies to what I dand described above (already posted this video in this thread): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j9BJRE4r46g

Summary: if you want to know the influence of a word on your mind, then you would need some degree of self-awareness/mindfulness, because not everyone reacts similarly to similar words irrespective of the origins and historical journey of a given word.

Do you believe that subjectivity is also in music? I mean, not everyone experiences the same emotional reaction to a melody, but I think there can be a general consensus whether a melody is deeply sad or not, for instance. What I am thinking with words is that they are both subjective, and also complicated by present and historical context, which I kind of see as a way in which language has evolved into something much more complicated than communication. Also, there is etymologies to think about, and how that effects a word's present use, though knowledge of these etymologies is itself socially-restricted somewhat. So language is both subjective and contextual.
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  #33  
Unread 04-07-2021, 09:46 AM
Max Goodman Max Goodman is offline
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Kevin's point about not always relying on our eyes is a good one.

I'm probably not alone in obsessively running what I'm working on through my head when I'm away from any version of the text I can see. Often, getting back to the text shows me a line, a stanza, a paragraph I'd "forgotten." These tend to be fruitful cuts.

I'm also intrigued by John's desire to see the words he's working with. The approaches, of course, don't have to be mutually exclusive (though we have to choose one at a time).
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  #34  
Unread 04-30-2021, 03:12 PM
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Sarah-Jane Crowson Sarah-Jane Crowson is offline
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Thank-you so much - what a brilliant discussion, and I'm so sorry I was absent for the last part of this. I will catch up soon, and I hope I will have the headspace to think now that the April madness is over to do this justice.

My very knee-jerk reflections are that, for me, part of the draw of NaPo is the exercise aspect - and also really, really pushing that so you have to push your practice beyond where its comfort zone - & also a sense of 'belonging' - to be part of a community who are grimly posting poems-each-day regardless - at the end, anyway, of any agenda about quality. I know I use it to try to push my hybrid practice (this year, anyway).

Maybe it's just about 'making', and that NaPo creates a space to make? I think it's Deleuze & Guattari who talk about 'smoothing spaces to dance' - perhaps it's that.

But having said that, I really like and appreciate the ideas that Mark articulates, a kind of subconscious musing (I hope that's reasonably accurate) that can manifest the creation of poems more organically - outside of the dialogue about production/linear time.

It's SO interesting (for me, anyway) and thank-you.

Sarah-Jane
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