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  #11  
Unread 05-21-2022, 04:00 PM
John Isbell John Isbell is offline
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If anyone (Yves) would like to read a wonderful pantoum from 1857, please allow me, Sarah-Jane, to plug the Baudelaire I linked to upthread, "Harmonie du soir." I believe it shows the capabilities of the form.

Cheers,
John
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  #12  
Unread 05-21-2022, 04:02 PM
Yves S L Yves S L is offline
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Sarah-Jane,

Apologies for the aside.

John,

Yeah, thanks for hooking me up with a pantoum, bro!

The first place I always go to is my second favourite poetry textbook (in that the best poems teach you how to write) "The Making Of A Poem: A Norton Anthology of Poetic Forms"
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  #13  
Unread 05-21-2022, 04:08 PM
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Sarah-Jane Crowson Sarah-Jane Crowson is offline
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Lol. I like the Baudelaire too and I think we can probably cope with one aside as long as we move the conversation somewhere else if it's going to get beyond this additional aside -
Here's an Ashbery pantoum that I also like - https://ashberyhouse.yale.edu/pantoum.

Sarah-Jane
(but seriously if we're going to share more pantoum links lets do it in General, then other people can contribute too)
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  #14  
Unread 05-21-2022, 04:13 PM
John Isbell John Isbell is offline
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Agreed, General would be a good place to start a pantoum thread for those interested.

Sarah-Jane, from my googling that very Ashbery pantoum started the (smallish) American C20th vogue for them, as Baudelaire's did for the West in general. I'll note Ashbery doesn't rhyme there, further to your specific concerns.

Cheers,
John
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  #15  
Unread 05-21-2022, 04:39 PM
Carl Copeland Carl Copeland is online now
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Like John, I miss the forest, though I couldn’t figure out what a marble floor was doing in “Little Red Riding Hood.” Wait a moment, this could be Snow White, with the wicked queen seeing the work of time in the mirror. Her castle would have had a marble floor, and the huntsman could have had hounds. Ok, not quite Snow White, but sort of. Anyway, the rhymed version tells a different tale and needs a footnote to define “furze” for me. On the whole, I have to go with Snow White.

Last edited by Carl Copeland; 05-21-2022 at 07:38 PM.
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  #16  
Unread 05-21-2022, 07:29 PM
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Rick Mullin Rick Mullin is offline
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Wow. .....................
RM
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  #17  
Unread 05-21-2022, 08:15 PM
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Allen Tice Allen Tice is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sarah-Jane Crowson View Post
Once

The echoes in the mirror murmur, ‘time, time’.
We glimpse a splash of crimson, a girl by the door,
hear her relentless running, a howl, a whine
– glass shatters on a marble floor.

We glimpse a splash of crimson, a girl by the door.
It’s nearly midnight. A pause – a mechanism whirrs
– glass shatters on a marble floor.
A woman waits half-hidden in the furze.

It’s nearly midnight. A pause – a mechanism whirrs
again. An intense scent of – apple? blossoms whilst
a woman waits, half-hidden in the furze
for the eldest child, the first to seek a tryst.

Again. An intense scent of apple blossoms, whilst
the echoes in the mirror murmur ‘time, time’
for the eldest child, the first to seek a tryst.
Hear her relentless running, a howl, a whine.
Content aside, for another time perhaps, this rhyme scheme satisfies. Rhyming tryst and whilst is very interesting. I’ll buy it here, this time. Can you give a third rhyme for that pair?

Content? No problems in a way. Should I leave it alone? Explanations appreciated.
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  #18  
Unread 05-21-2022, 09:10 PM
John Isbell John Isbell is offline
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Hi Sarah-Jane,

You should by all means use whichever rhymes seem best to you. Perhaps your current rhyme scheme is the way to go.

Cheers,
John
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  #19  
Unread 05-22-2022, 12:36 PM
Jason Ringler Jason Ringler is offline
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Hi Sarah,

Great idea to bring fairytales into pantoum and challenging I bet. I prefer the original, though I like the furze word and feel it goes with the big bad wolf, you could even use the word furs, but she'd be hiding in the wolf then.

Also, I like the title. I have to take a look at this form.
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  #20  
Unread 05-22-2022, 01:43 PM
David Callin David Callin is offline
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Well ... I definitely got notes of Little Red Riding Hood from a first reading, but nothing else I could put my finger on - although the generic fairy tale-ishness of the whole was unmistakable. (Apart from that damn mechanism whirring - what fairy tale is this? It reminded me more of Poe, say, or Wells.)

I think a girl in the forest is far more evocative than a girl by the door (unless the girl is Lizzie Borden), but you're probably right in going for a rhyming version. Furze is a nice addition to the poem - it sounds, somehow, agreeably Scottish to me, although I'll have to follow that unsubstantiated thought up - but tryst is a hard word to use, and I think you could find a better one.

I definitely got a hint of "The Hound of the Baskervilles" from your original S4. Probably not what you wanted!

How helpful is all that? Not very, I fear, but I look forward to seeing where you go from here. Good luck! (Follow the bread crumbs.)

Cheers

David
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