[Sarah-Jane Crowson]

Hello,

I've been commissioned to create some collages that juxtapose different extracts/quotes from the feminist canon as surrealist/imagined cafe conversations. I'm working at pace, short deadline.

I'm enough of a scholar to want to be careful in citing my source material, and make sure it's reliable, etc (for those of you who are interested I'm also working ethically and sensitively with source images - this isn't a re-imagine, it's a working 'with').

I'm currently looking at an imagined conversation between Sappho and Simone Weil. I'd vaguely remembered a bit of Sappho (or what I'd thought was Sappho) that I thought was valid -

May I write words more naked than flesh, stronger than bone

But when I look online I can only find it in 'quotes' type sites or articles with no citation, and when I go to my Penguin Classics Sappho poems I can't find it in there either.

Is it one of those dubious things I should avoid, or does anyone here know the source/ a citeable translation that I can look at and quote from?

Thank you so much in advance if you're able to help with this. In another time I'd enjoy researching it/tracking it down, but it's all a bit frantic.

Sarah-Jane

[W T Clark]

I, unfortunately, cannot help you with naming the source translation for that exquisite quote. I do think that Aaron Poochigian's and Anne Carson's translations are alive enough to qualify as citable.

Also, isn't all working with a reimagining, if the poet is not alive to consult?

Sorry to be so unhelpful.

[Sarah-Jane Crowson]

Thanks Cameron - it's appreciated you tried.

I, unfortunately, cannot help you with naming the source translation for that exquisite quote. I do think that Aaron Poochigian's and Anne Carson's translations are alive enough to qualify as citable.

Yes, of course, they are. I'll cite as Sappho, Stung with Love: Poems and Fragments. Trans. Poochigian, A. London, Penguin Classics, London, or something like that - my formating would need a tidy. And the page number. Depending on the citation style I use when the images are complete.

But I can't find that line in the translation. It's all over the web as a 'quotable quote' - but that's it. It's unreliable.

Also, isn't all working with a reimagining, if the poet is not alive to consult

In my personal, highly subjective & deeply flawed taxonomy of collage use, no. For me, a re-imagining is a re-making of words, something to do if I feel passionately unhappy with the source material, or feel that I want to reclaim or subvert it.

It's an imagining, yes, in that the dialogue is an imaginary dialogue. But I'm using the words of the writers and thinkers themselves, carefully, with respect and thoughtfulness (insomuch that time allows). I am probably overthinking the particular project, but for me it's important.

Sarah-Jane

[W T Clark]

It might be worth checking the Carson translation if you can afford it, though I do not know personally if it is in there, having more experience with Poochigian.

I understand your dichotomy, but maybe arrogantly, if I were up to your tricks, I would still see my work as a kind of earnest reimagining.

Originally Posted by Sarah-Jane Crowson

Thanks Cameron - it's appreciated you tried.



Yes, of course, they are. I'll cite as Sappho, Stung with Love: Poems and Fragments. Trans. Poochigian, A. London, Penguin Classics, London, or something like that - my formating would need a tidy. And the page number. Depending on the citation style I use when the images are complete.

But I can't find that line in the translation. It's all over the web as a 'quotable quote' - but that's it. It's unreliable.



In my personal, highly subjective & deeply flawed taxonomy of collage use, no. For me, a re-imagining is a re-making of words, something to do if I feel passionately unhappy with the source material, or feel that I want to reclaim or subvert it.

It's an imagining, yes, in that the dialogue is an imaginary dialogue. But I'm using the words of the writers and thinkers themselves, carefully, with respect and thoughtfulness (insomuch that time allows). I am probably overthinking the particular project, but for me it's important.

Sarah-Jane

[Orwn Acra]

You could always send Aaron a PM here.

But I doubt it is Sappho, or it is Sappho but a translation that wandered far away from its source, translator unknown. It's not in the Carson (I checked) or the Barnard (ditto).

I would suggest looking at the Carson if you have not already. Hers is the only translation of anything by anyone that takes into consideration the haptic qualities of translation and textual research: "Even though you are approaching Sappho in translation, that is no reason you should miss the drama of trying to read a papyrus torn in half or riddled with holes or smaller that a postage stamp--brackets imply a free space of imaginal adventure." You might find it useful in your visual work. You can find the book on z-lib.

[Sarah-Jane Crowson]

Thanks both,

Cameron, maybe a trichotomy or a polychotomy. Earnest, yes.

Orwn, thank you for checking those sources. Much, much appreciated. I think it might be a kind of bowlderisation of a foreward to an old translation of Sappho, or possibly Catallus writing on Sappho (if he did, I really don't know, I'm a classical ignoramus).

I'm keen not to pester Aaron. I could contact him but this is a tiny thing and he's already been very generous with his advice and support in other ways, plus I suspect that he's busy at the moment.

I love what you say about the Carson though - thank you. I will buy her, and what you tell me about the translation makes me excited to explore the work. I don't know about you, but with me, it's always a balance between simultaneous different types of work. Economics (and to be seen - the carnival, the performance) but also the need to practice and push and explore. Deep down I've been looking at slow animations of - almost torn edges, of how photoshop offers the affordance to make things move in a really interesting, slow, slow, way. Wondering how a single line of text and a single torn paper edge might work together. Marbled paper. A kind of anti-semantics, or dissolved semantics. And what you write about Carson makes me think that would inform how that thought might come forward with source material, too.

But thank you and thank you for the signpost and the thinking.


Onwards!

Sarah-Jane