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  #21  
Unread 09-13-2021, 08:39 AM
Roger Slater Roger Slater is offline
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Someone mentioned Boots of Spanish leather. Since Nanci Griffith died recently, I'll post her great cover of the song. BOOTS

Also great: Simple Twist of Fate, Not Dark Yet, Don't Think Twice, Forever Young, Like a Rolling Stone, Shelter from the Storm, Everything Is Broken, Standing in the Doorway, and a little song called Blowin' in the Wind.

The video of Not Dark Yet is wonderful.
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  #22  
Unread 09-13-2021, 11:06 AM
Jesse Anger Jesse Anger is offline
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Cally-o,

Magic lyrics is rite! I always play girl from the north country as a warm up! The guy just was on top to the pyramid for a solid seven years... it's almost more than poetry or music and edges into prophecy and vatic utterance. I bought chronicles just to read his account of those first seven, but he refused to write about it and only wrote once sentence concerning it. Paraphrased here:

One has to command angels to write those kind of songs...

Okay Ezekiel, I mean, Bob.

As for the discussion of musicianship and songwriting my feeling is that all those named here, the monsters of folk from that period, are all master songsmiths. That doesn't mean they are great, or even good musicians. Technical ability and creative ability overlap but remain two very distinct things. For my money, Waits's pen is better than all the rest. Joni's guitaring is unmatched. Cohen's control, and voice. To me John Lennon doesn't belong anywhere near this conversation. He is a great songwriter, but clearly his lyrics can't hang with the others mentioned here. Also, we are only talking about one generation loosely. So many stellar artists have come since them.

Yoni Wolf
David Berman
Conor Oberst
Joe Pug
Ani Difranco

And for both songcraft and musicianship Kelly Joe Phelps is the best out - plus he has no social media, no promotion, no nothing. It's truly my belief that he is hundreds of years old, and simply hangs around here by choice.

J

Last edited by Jesse Anger; 09-13-2021 at 11:11 AM. Reason: messed up bobby's paraphrase
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  #23  
Unread 09-13-2021, 11:32 AM
Bill Dyes Bill Dyes is offline
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John;

Music is like well formed hands that in their palms sometimes words are offered up. In my listening the union of the hands and the words happens less frequently than others claim. I seriously doubt if the Nobel Prize will ever be given again to a pop musician (although I certainly could be wrong). But I think Dylan got it because his lyrics have for decades embodied the 'conscious of America'. The Nobel Prize is not a music award. It does not have one. For me nothing comes together like the fusion of music and words than in the albums 'Blue", "The Hissing of Summer Lawns", and "Mingus". Many artists have something to say or a great story to tell and many should do just that; write a poem or write a story. Yes, Dylan is a true revolutionary. Mitchell is just an innovator.

Bill
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  #24  
Unread 09-13-2021, 02:02 PM
Mark McDonnell Mark McDonnell is offline
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Oh, a Dylan thread! Yaay! I've banged on about him many times here in the past but basically I couldn't agree more with John. I don't think his influence can be overestimated. But also, Julie!

Quote:
Don't forget Joan's devastating Diamonds and Rust.
Absolutely. It's a shame Joan didn't write more of her own stuff. I wonder if he really said her "poetry was lousy", the swine. Probably. The 1976 album "Gulf Winds" is her only album of all original material. This, the autobiographical epic title track, is extraordinarily good.

https://youtu.be/jFfiDALshd0

Last edited by Mark McDonnell; 09-13-2021 at 03:06 PM.
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  #25  
Unread 09-13-2021, 04:48 PM
John Riley John Riley is offline
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Bob Dylan is not a pop singer.
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  #26  
Unread 09-13-2021, 05:25 PM
Bill Dyes Bill Dyes is offline
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John:

I disagree. Popular Music is the umbrella which includes folk, rock, blues, Broadway, and everything else except jazz and classical.

Bill
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  #27  
Unread 09-13-2021, 05:32 PM
Jim Moonan Jim Moonan is offline
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.
Jesse: "To me John Lennon doesn't belong anywhere near this conversation. He is a great songwriter, but clearly his lyrics can't hang with the others mentioned here."

Iíve followed Dylanís work all my adult life and have seen him twice on stage. (The live concerts were garbled and poorly produced , imo.) He has been, without question, the quintessential bard of our time. From the standpoint of folk music, he catalyzed the genre and sent it hurtling into rock. Unquestionably a great artist and a fine poet.

But for pure artistic genius and for the sheer honesty of his solo work I still want Lennon on the stage with Dylan, reflecting the angst of our times, speaking relentlessly about love, writing unvarnished personal lyrics of pain and redemption and religion and family and power and war.

Just Gimme some truth, The kind Mr. Tambourine Man played in the jingle jangle morning, and Iíll follow.



John: "Bob Dylan is not a pop singer."

No he's not. Nor is Lennon's solo work (see my response to Jesse). I like my music lyrics like I like my poetry: first and foremost personal, with clear, broader implications. Both Dylan and Lennon are masters at that.

.
.
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  #28  
Unread 09-13-2021, 05:55 PM
Jesse Anger Jesse Anger is offline
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Fair enough, Jim I just find Lennon not up to par in a consistent way with the others lyrically. But to each their own, the guy is still a giant, no question.

Popular songs and pop idiom are also not the same thing. I think a lot of people miss that distinction. Pop is like this catchy, melodic, hook based style that can be done in any kind genre of music - the stars, U2, the smiths... all pop, lots of underground pop, too.

Have we mentioned Nick Drake yet?

J
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  #29  
Unread 09-14-2021, 11:08 AM
Mark McDonnell Mark McDonnell is offline
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Ah, Nick Drake, Jesse. So incredible but almost too heartbreaking to think about.

Hey, Bob himself claimed to be "not even a pop singer" in 1965 (5 mins 45), though as always he's being a cheeky little trickster. And he can hold his breath three times as long as Caruso (if he wants to).

https://youtu.be/mnl5X5MQKTg
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