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  #11  
Unread 05-03-2021, 07:41 PM
Julie Steiner Julie Steiner is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RCL View Post
And here I expected to hear about how it interwove feminine and masculine rhymes as part of its meaning. Nutz.
Oh. The reason I didn't comment on this aspect was because I didn't see any feminine rhymes, Ralph.

The first "n" in "meaning" keeps BE-ing and MEA-ning from rhyming perfectly on both a stressed and an unstressed syllable (the usual definition of feminine or "double" rhyme). And EV'-ry-THING, and NU-tu-RING rhyme only on a final stressed syllable, which makes them masculine or "single" rhymes--just like the rest of the poem.

Rhyme both of the final two syllables, with the first stressed and the second unstressed (as in NA-tion, cre-A-tion, AG-gra-VA-tion, and DEV-a-STA-tion), and I'll be less thick about recognizing the presence of feminine rhymes.

Last edited by Julie Steiner; 05-03-2021 at 07:45 PM.
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  #12  
Unread 05-03-2021, 08:55 PM
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I stand inspected and corrected. I'll try to be even worse next time. Centi anni.
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  #13  
Unread 05-04-2021, 10:50 AM
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Daniel Kemper Daniel Kemper is offline
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STOP THE STEAL - bwahahaha!

I could sense, but hadn't quite sussed out the feminine before i read other's comments. It's a great idea. You are hitting line drives, Mr. Mays. Keep at it.

Also, I did get a tinge of Endymion.
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  #14  
Unread 05-04-2021, 11:22 AM
Julie Steiner Julie Steiner is offline
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A few more thoughts, which might spark something. (Whether they make you want to make changes, or want to push back to defend something important to your vision that I'm not properly appreciating, I think these comments could be useful either way.)

"learned of" in L2 seems a bit remote--as if the boy were only hearing about or reading about the Sun, instead of experiencing it firsthand. Maybe something more direct there instead? Or maybe mention the Sun's continuing presence as the boy grew?

Also, "quickly" in L2, followed by "soon" in L9, made me wonder just how "soon" after his birth in L1 he hit puberty. Didn't that take years? Again, mentioning the boy's growth might be helpful. You could still refer to him as a boy, of course--all of us are still children at some level--but I just wonder if the rush is necessary.
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  #15  
Unread 05-04-2021, 11:56 AM
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Daniel,

I hear your cheer! If there’s a whiff of Endymion, in memory it’s distant and dusty. Say hey, Willie!

But I’m more like Joe Willie White Shoes, who first wore daring white low-cuts in pro ball. I wore the first low-cuts on my high school football team—and was severely punished by boos and the coaches because when one flew off it cost a certain TD. Ran faster than my shoes—hmm, another "shoes wore him" poem aborning?

Julie, you sparked revisions clearer than my first vision, so Thanks!
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  #16  
Unread 05-05-2021, 06:52 AM
Matt Q Matt Q is online now
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Hi Ralph,

The mention of Adam and Eve at the close of this the poem, and given the earlier mention of Paradise, had me wondering if the youth were Adam -- and also how, mythically, the poem connects with the Bible. The boy is probably not Adam if we go by myth, as Adam was never a boy, but the boy/youth seems at least parallel to Adam, I think. So maybe the "earthy" woman, whom he's moved, to wed is Lilith. She was created from earth like Adam (and unlike Eve). Then there are also parallels, I think, between the sun and God. The Sun that lights (most of) everything. And then the stars as perhaps (if I don't stretch this too far) fallen angels, those cast out from the light.

So, lots of interesting stuff here, I think. Despite that, this is one isn't doing as much for me as it could be. I think that's primarily because it lacks much by the way of concrete and specific imagery, and instead spends a lot of time with the abstract/general and hence is visually pretty flat.

Anyway, more specific stuff to follow.

I wondered if there's a way to avoid repeating the word "Sun" so many times? Particularly the 3 repetitions in line 5-8. I notice that you go "boy"->"child"->"youth" to avoid repetition.

This boy was born to light that charged his being,

I like the opening line.

and the child felt the Sun’s solar might.

I did wonder at this point if the child and the boy (and later the youth) are the same person. Looking at the original, I can see you intend them to be, but it was clearer in the original. In which case, you don't need "the child": "and felt the ..." conveys the same. I also think "solar" is redundant here. Can the sun's might be other than "solar"? So, "and felt the sun's might" seems to convey what's in the second line.

Since almost every line is in strict IP, I thought I'd flag up that this one isn't:

and the | CHILD FELT | the SUN'S |SOL|ar MIGHT|.

He saw that Sun lit most of everything,

Do you want the ambiguity here? I can read: the sun lit almost everything, or I can read: the sit everything, but each thing was only mostly lit, not wholly. So, say, it lights up this toadstool, but not the underneath of it.

but it seemed that Sun snubbed kindred at night—

This line I hear as tetrameter:

but it SEEMED| that SUN | snubbed KIND| red at NIGHT

You might want "but" stressed, but it's not a word that naturally takes one, and even then it's still not strict IP like the rest of the poem.

Moon’s beams distant reflections of his light.
Although a scion of Sun’s nurturing,
the youth succumbed to a sub-lunar mood
of intensely romantic passions urging him

"intensely romantic passions" is all abstraction. And also pretty redundant I think. Doesn't, "a sub-lunar mood urging him to wed and earthy woman ..." give us enough? I think I'd assume romantic passions had been stirred.

to wed an earthy woman he pursued.
Despite its many modes under the Sun
and Eve of Eden made to echo Adam,
the Moon he humbly loves is feminine.



best,

Matt
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  #17  
Unread 05-05-2021, 12:06 PM
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F.F. Teague F.F. Teague is offline
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Hi Ralph,

Sorry I'm late to this. I just have one possibly foolish question for now: who is the boy?

Best wishes,
Fliss
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  #18  
Unread 05-05-2021, 12:19 PM
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Matt,

Thanks for the very helpful detailed reading. At some point, I must have thought all humans born enter into an innocent paradise, soon to be poisoned by hard Appleonian reality as hormones and social forces pressure us. My personal mantra, though, is: Humans were a very bad idea. I’m following the biblical and literary archetypes, not my personal views of our origins and evolution. I’ll sort out what I can do in response to your other good notes, especially the repetitions and abstract quality of the whole. Thanks again for seeing for me!

Fliss, Better late than never! Your question's sort of answered in my response to Matt.
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