[Duncan Gillies MacLaurin]

I was reading Catullus 13 today and noted it had 14 lines. Not only that, but it is clearly divided into an octet and a sestet with a volte: "Sed..." ("But...") Might this have been the inspiration for the Petrarchan sonnet?

Duncan

[John Isbell]

Petrarch was a devoted classical scholar and collector of manuscripts, but a quick google confirms that there are Italian sonnets produced by the C13th court of Frederick II in Sicily. I guess there are no known earlier Occitan sonnets. Dante wrote sonnets before Petrarch’s birth.

Cheers,
John

Update: this is Allen’s turf, but I believe Catullus was rediscovered post-sonnet around 1300 - in time for Petrarch though. BTW I descend from Thomas Wyatt, who brought the form to English.

[Duncan Gillies MacLaurin]

Okay, John, but my question still stands.

Duncan

PS Very nice with the Wyatt ancestry!

[John Isbell]

Petrarch was born in 1304. He may well, from what I know of his love of Classics, have noted the Catullus and found inspiration there. But the form predates Catullus’s rediscovery, and that matters.

Cheers,
John

[John Isbell]

Thanks re: Wyatt! I also descend from his son, who was hanged, drawn and quartered by Bloody Mary.

Cheers,
John

Update: google again. Petrarch read and admired Catullus in the Verona Codex post-1347. Petrarch was a famous MS. collector, but he evidently lacked Catullus.

[Michael Cantor]

I'm getting confused, John. Was your Choctaw grandparent a descendant of Thomas Wyatt? And was he also Jewish? Or were those all separate branches of the family? I swear, there's a poem there. But I suspect you may have already written it.

[Allen Tice]

Tim, my Gaelic is nonexistent, but my rusty Mandarin is not. So, 你好 !