Eratosphere Forums - Metrical Poetry, Free Verse, Fiction, Art, Critique, Discussions Able Muse - a review of poetry, prose and art

Forum Left Top

Notices

Reply
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Unread 07-01-2022, 10:47 AM
David Callin David Callin is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: Ellan Vannin
Posts: 2,874
Default Hacket

There was a garden big enough for ball games
where all the imagined victories were West Hamís:
a strange choice, but there was method in it -
it was Moore, Hurst and Peters, obviously, that did it.

There was the hacket, two fine Dutch barns,
ramparts builded high with bales of hay and straw,
a sweet-smelling castle where we could lounge and play,
bothering only a few desultory hens.

Work was going on. We could hear it.
Growling tractors, the creak and thud and clank
of a farming day, the ambling tumult of cows

were audible, but could not discompose
the abandoned reaper, dreaming of the harvest,
or the nettles joy-riding in a stripped-down charabanc.
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Unread 07-01-2022, 10:48 AM
David Callin David Callin is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: Ellan Vannin
Posts: 2,874
Default

Is this actually metrical? I'm not sure.
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Unread 07-01-2022, 11:16 AM
Joe Crocker Joe Crocker is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2020
Location: York
Posts: 453
Default

More nostalgia David. Great stuff. I feel the Fast Show's Ron Manager about to make an appearance. 66 World Cup, jumpers for goal posts... etc

We also sought out barns to play among the hay-bales. The sweet smell of straw still brings it all back. We used to construct terrifying rope swings hung over the beams, and let go on a flying leap aimed at a carefully placed landing heap.

I particularly like the tumult of cows and joy-riding nettles. And Blake's Jerusalem.

What is a "hacket" though?

Last edited by Joe Crocker; 07-01-2022 at 12:37 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Unread 07-01-2022, 02:31 PM
Carl Copeland Carl Copeland is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2022
Location: St. Petersburg, Russia
Posts: 362
Default

In answer to your question, David, I think you’ve invented the lenticular sonnet—meter and rhyme winking on and off depending on your angle of view. As I scan it, eight lines are IP with trochaic inversions and (in three) missing beats after a mark of punctuation. Five lines are more complicated, but pentameterish. Where you really got my goat was L6, where “builded” seems designed especially to foil my expectation of pentameter. The rhymes wink off entirely in S2 and come on only dimly in the last six lines. Of course, the football theme is lost on me, but that’s my problem, and the rest is quite lovely. The real mystery, as Joe points out, is “hacket.” Google tells me it’s either a jacket that looks like a hoodie but isn’t or a “Glaswegian word meaning down right rank rotten, mingingly mockit,” as in “Drewboy is right hacket!” Jonathan will want this one for his word list.

Carl

Last edited by Carl Copeland; 07-01-2022 at 05:35 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Unread 07-01-2022, 02:44 PM
John Riley John Riley is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: North Carolina
Posts: 5,432
Default

First, this poem is tough on an old-reformed Cracker from the southern part of the U.S. When I looked up "hacket" definitions flowed. I suppose it is a patch of something? That in the poem it's a synonym for "setting?" I didn't know what a "charabanc" was either. It's an old bus, right? We are two nations divided by a common language.

I understand it's a nostalgia poem but, again, I don't feel it in S1 because I don't know the names, who I assume are footballers?, that you mention. The next three stanzas of the sonnet work best for me. I like the descriptions and how they emerge from the mind of someone remembering childhood. It works because the narrator is able to return to thinking/seeing as the boy he's remembering. It's a man speaking but it's a boy thinking. That works well. I also like that the poem isn't working toward a sort of Robert Frost resonance. It's a remembrance. It does end with a dream but it isn't one that tries to pin the reader. It's a fine poem, very well written with clear imagery and POV. Congratulations.

(You'll have to ask someone else about the meter.)
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Unread 07-02-2022, 03:13 AM
Jonathan James Henderson Jonathan James Henderson is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Oklahoma City
Posts: 287
Default

First, allow me to fawn over the idea of "all the imagined victories were West Ham's:" though I don't know "football," I know other sports and the memory of playing them as a kid and always imagining my teams won is superbly captured by that and immediately brought me into the imaginative world of childhood. Even without knowing the name references, I intuited they were players, and I like how "obviously, that did it" sustains the imagination but also the subtly ironic tone (ironic only because of the distance of looking back on such imaginative times). My only issues here is that "imagined" might spell it out too much (a minor matter of taste) and I wish the third line did more to sustain the imaginative element rather than so quickly moving towards commenting on it (also a minor matter of taste).

My difficulties begin after: I'm not sure what a hacket is either, and "builded" is not a word I ever hear as opposed to "built;" maybe it's different where you're from? I'll also say I'm ambivalent on whether "Work was going on. We could hear it." works. It stands out by contrast from what preceded it given it's two compact sentences in a line after two long sentences taking up entire quatrains of the octet. On the one hand, it definitely signals the shift to the sestet, but on the other I think it reads more flat than... presentimental, is the word I'm looking for. I could probably talk myself into the idea that such flatness is, in itself, meant as a contrast to the expansive, imaginative play of the octet, but if so I think it needs to be justified by ending more on that theme rather than returning (maybe more retreating) to landscape description, as nice as the image of the nettles joy-riding is and the ambling tumult of cows are.
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Unread 07-03-2022, 04:45 AM
David Callin David Callin is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: Ellan Vannin
Posts: 2,874
Default

More nostalgia indeed, Joe. I seem to keep coming back to it. But I'm glad you liked it.

Ah, Ron Manager ... I did like The Fast Show.

Is Blake's Jerusalem in there? If so, it is unintentional, and I can't spot it now.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe Crocker View Post
What is a "hacket" though?
Good question. It's a local pronunciation (or mispronunciation), perhaps, of this ...

Noun
haggard (plural haggards) - (dialect, Isle of Man, Ireland, Scotland) A stackyard, an enclosure on a farm for stacking grain, hay, etc.
He tuk a slew [swerve] round the haggard


Maybe I should just put "haggard" into the poem, and let the pronunciation look after itself.

The lenticular sonnet, Carl! That sounds better than the thing probably is. The rhyming is on and off, and the line lengths fluctuate, I know. I just let them go where they would. My personal definition of poetry, when it comes right down to it, probably boils down to something like "fun with words". I let myself have fun with them here. Whether that ends up being poetry is for the beholder to decide.

Anyway, I'm glad you liked it too, the capriciousness (see what I did there?) of L6 notwithstanding. (Actually, I've just discovered my etymology is false there. But I'll let it stand. Fun with words, again, you see.)

John, sorry for the misdirection of "hacket" ... see above about that. And yes, the football reference is probably impenetrable beyond these shores. Glad you liked the rest.

Jonathan, I think you'll see that I've agreed that I need to revisit "hacket". "Builded", I think, is okay, although I agree it's much less prevalent than "built". It's probably a self-consciously poetical word, although (I think!) it suits the fanciful nature of what's going on in S2. (Another friend, elsewhere, has reminded me that it also appears in Philip Larkin's "Cut Grass", a favourite of mine, so that may have something to do with it too. And "cut grass" is oddly applicable to S2 too.)

But I will have a think about what you say about the sestet as well.

Cheers all

David
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Unread 07-03-2022, 05:27 AM
Jonathan James Henderson Jonathan James Henderson is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Oklahoma City
Posts: 287
Default

I will say that I think trying to imitate the mispronunciation of "haggard" as "hacket" would be nigh impossible to pull-off in print for anyone not from there. My only thought is some Joycean combination of the two, trying to signal both the local color, but also the original word, something like "hackert" or "hagget," but I don't think any of them really work for a nonce usage in terms of clearing up the confusion.
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Unread 07-03-2022, 06:45 AM
Joe Crocker Joe Crocker is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2020
Location: York
Posts: 453
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by David Callin View Post

Is Blake's Jerusalem in there? If so, it is unintentional, and I can't spot it now.


David
Deep breath, straight back, head held high.... and go for it

And was Jerusalem builded here
Among these dark Satanic mills?

I like the idea of boys engineering an imperial city out of hay bales. Which is what "builded" does for me.
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Unread 07-03-2022, 07:54 AM
Jim Moonan Jim Moonan is online now
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2016
Location: Boston, MA
Posts: 3,536
Default All smiles

,
It's ambling metrical

You often find a way to use nostalgia like a tool to pry open a larger emotional landscape that allows me to ladder up and see the transcendent Or is it that you lead the reader to a well of deeper understanding and ask us to lower ourselves down to drink? Nevermind.

You come perilously close to painting on velvet. Ha! Just kidding! Seriously You're strictly a watercolor guy

.

Last edited by Jim Moonan; 07-03-2022 at 11:06 AM.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump



Forum Right Top
Forum Left Bottom Forum Right Bottom
 
Right Left
Member Login
Forgot password?
Forum LeftForum Right


Forum Statistics:
Forum Members: 8,272
Total Threads: 21,435
Total Posts: 270,902
There are 170 users
currently browsing forums.
Forum LeftForum Right


Forum Sponsor:
Donate & Support Able Muse / Eratosphere
Forum LeftForum Right
Right Right
Right Bottom Left Right Bottom Right

Hosted by ApplauZ Online