[John Riley]

I Do Not Choose What Is What

She walks by my house behind a small dog
This morning starlings murmured a cloud
Rolling and shifting in a luring dance
I wonder if she would like to go far away
Inside the dark pageant that remembers the way
It is not my fancy-dressed heart
That allows me to know hearts are hearts
Dogs are dogs
Starlings are starlings
She walks over the small hill and moves out of sight
I know she was here because I remember
Her dog has his place and his feet will remember
My fancy-dressed heart will not remember
My large hands are not full of memory
Soon she will face the bridge in the park
Cross over the slow creek I hope soft in her thoughts


*deleted “ above” in L2. Cut Line 10–“Old is me and the steady young lady is she.” It’s unnecessary. Felt that way to me but I may be wrong.

[Mark McDonnell]

John, this is utterly beautiful. I only wonder if it needs some punctuation.

But then, I've literally only just read it so perhaps I need to give it some patience. I shall be reading it again and again.

My turn to be envious.

Edit: All the lines have initial caps and most are discrete units of sense. But some aren't. You could experiment with not using initial caps for those lines that are following on the sense from the previous line.

[Mark McDonnell]

I hope you don't mind me doing this, John, as I realise it could come across as a bit of a sledgehammer philistine move. But I'm just going to show you what I mean, regarding punctuation. It might be the high school English teacher in me but I tend towards liking regular punctuation, unless there's a very good reason. In lots of your poems I see the justification for its absence but I'm not sure about that here. For me, this would change a beautiful poem that gives me a slight struggle into simply a beautiful poem. You, and others, may disagree. And you might be right.


I Do Not Choose What Is What

She walks by my house behind a small dog.
This morning, starlings murmured, a cloud above
rolling and shifting in a luring dance.
I wonder if she would like to go far away,
inside the dark pageant that remembers the way.
It is not my fancy-dressed heart
that allows me to know hearts are hearts,
dogs are dogs,
starlings are starlings.
Old me is me and the steady young lady is she.
She walks over the small hill and moves out of sight.
I know she was here because I remember —
her dog has his place and his feet will remember.
My fancy-dressed heart will not remember.
My large hands are not full of memory.
Soon she will face the bridge in the park,
cross over the slow creek, I hope soft in her thoughts.

[Carl Copeland]

John, I’ll stay neutral on the question of whether to punctuate or not to punctuate, but it did make sense of L2 for me. If Mark understood it correctly and you decide to stay unpunctuated, I suggest breaking that line after “murmured” to discourage the reading “starlings murmured a cloud.” Or is that what you meant?

[Matt Q]

See, if I were punctuating this, I might punctuate differently to Mark.

For example, personally, as a fully paid up member of the magical realist society, I'd definitely have this as:

This morning starlings murmured a cloud above,
rolling and shifting in a luring dance.

The murmuring caused a cloud (a murmuration) and that cloud rolled and shifted and danced. (comma after "morning" is optional I think, so I dropped it).

And I'd be reluctant to break this line with an en-dash, because I want to be able to read:

I know she was here because I remember
(that) her dog has his place and his feet will remember.

Even if that possibly doesn't make 100% sense.

It looks like there may be more poems here if John doesn't punctuate than if he does. We each get our own bespoke versions.

More than this, I think that if a line or a pair of lines is open to being read more than one way this can often add some play to the reading experience. In the above examples I can read either parsing, maybe even be aware of both at the same time. I can read those two "remember" lines as independent statements or as logically joined. I can read the more magical murmuring of a cloud, and the more realistic version too.

It is a beautiful poem John. If I've not made this clear already, I prefer it unpunctuated. I feel more involved in the reading of it, a little more immersed, and pleasantly less clear about what's immediately ahead of me as I read and possible parsings and connections shift around me.

-Matt

[Mark McDonnell]

It looks like there may be more poems here if John doesn't punctuate than if he does. We each get our own bespoke versions.

More than this, I think that if a line or a pair of lines is open to being read more than one way this can often add some play to the reading experience.

I mean, I can see the charm of this idea, Matt, but equally this would probably be true of most poems if you removed the punctuation. For me, the poem is saying quite enough beautiful and mysterious things, so that I don't have the need for a lack of punctuation to make me feel "pleasantly less clear" about what those things are. I realise this is the stolidly dull approach.

I do like your punctuation of the starlings line better than mine. But I suppose I want some formal precision in my mystery.

The poem is really impressive either way, so John should do as he feels right of course. I just thought I'd explain myself a bit more.

[John Riley]

First off, I am always grateful when my poems are read and people take time to make suggestions. That should never be a concern. That is much better than someone saying it sucks but not saying why.

I am pleased the poem is generally liked. I expected the lack of punctuation to be what was commented on the most. I have several projects that will probably never be completed—I know it’s often joked about but ADHD is real—and one of them is a collection of poems in this style—initial caps and no punctuation. The idea is if the lines are clear punctuation is redundant. (I’ve disliked the question mark for years.) I posted one titled “Still Life With Moving Questions” a while back and I don’t remember the lack of punctuation being mentioned often. I suspect the reason it is mentioned more here is because each line isn’t a contained statement.

I did intend the play with murmuration in L2. The murmuration of starlings murmured into a cloud. Starlings are the birds that fly in thick groups of hundreds or thousands of small birds that folds and weaves a cloud.

I do like your version, Mark. I’m pleased the poem is flexible enough to be woven into another form. I’m going to hang onto my form for now and see if I can make those lines more independent, but if I do change your version, except for the cloud lines, is a strong one to follow.

Matt, your thinking is more what I intended. I always try to find a sweet spot between a plain literalism and fake obscurity and your comments suggest I may have pulled it off here?

I thought “I hope” in the last line would’ve been mentioned. I hope that means it works.

I agree with one thing formal poets often say. That restriction can often bring out a better poem. I found the 100-word restriction to be valuable. Often I felt as though I padded the poems to reach one hundred. I find this form restricting in another way. That’s why I think the break down of the single-line form in that section is the problem here.

Thanks for the thoughtful comments.

John

[John Riley]

I made a couple of cuts. I think for the best?

[Matt Q]

Hi John,

I'd wondered if you needed "above" and couldn't decide. Seeing it gone, I think losing it was a good choice.

Not sure where I stand on L10 yet.

Best,

Matt

[Nick McRae]

Originally Posted by John Riley

I Do Not Choose What Is What

She walks by my house behind a small dog
This morning starlings murmured a cloud
Rolling and shifting in a luring dance
I wonder if she would like to go far away
Inside the dark pageant that remembers the way
It is not my fancy-dressed heart
That allows me to know hearts are hearts
Dogs are dogs
Starlings are starlings
She walks over the small hill and moves out of sight
I know she was here because I remember
Her dog has his place and his feet will remember
My fancy-dressed heart will not remember
My large hands are not full of memory
Soon she will face the bridge in the park
Cross over the slow creek I hope soft in her thoughts


*deleted “ above” in L2. Cut Line 10–“Old is me and the steady young lady is she.” It’s unnecessary. Felt that way to me but I may be wrong.

A few thoughts.

In L3 the use of the word 'luring' seems to be at odds with the rest of the poem. From the rest of it I'm getting the sense that you weren't lured by this woman, but the word seems to introduce an element of attraction that isn't actually there. I wonder if you could change this word to something indicating a diametric opposite, or at least something neutral. To indicate a lack of being lured, or a state of indifference.

In L6-7 I wonder if there is a way that you could use the phrase 'hearts are hearts' without having to explicitly tell the reader that you know this. I believe the phrase 'hearts are hearts' is all you need to invoke the sentiment without spelling it out, and if you can do this the lines would be stronger, I think.

For L10, what about: "She moves over the small hill and out of sight". I like the use of 'moves' as it gives me the kind of philosophical stoicism you seem to be aiming for, but using both it and walk in the same line is superfluous.

For the close I think it's a strong line, but I wonder if there is a way to re-work it. It reads a little awkwardly to me.