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  #11  
Unread 06-15-2022, 11:38 AM
Jim Moonan Jim Moonan is offline
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It is a force to be reckoned with... Carry on. I'm gone.
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  #12  
Unread 06-15-2022, 11:53 AM
Roger Slater Roger Slater is offline
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I don't think there is any way we could ever know for sure if a computer is sentient, on the one hand, or merely has so much computing power that it can engage in conversations that seem to exhibit sentience. The same can arguably said about people. We take it on faith that people we speak with are not simply giving voice to the results of a computer calculation but are living in their own mental world where thoughts and self-awareness and consciousness take place, but do we really know this? Perhaps everyone but yourself is a zombie spitting out the results of algorithms and neural-network computer programming. This is because we ultimately do not even know what consciousness is, and we can't really explain our own experience of being who we are and having an identity. Sometimes we call it a "soul," but whatever we call it we don't really know what it is and whether a manufactured machine can possess it.
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  #13  
Unread 06-15-2022, 12:07 PM
Mark McDonnell Mark McDonnell is offline
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That's a good article, Cameron.
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  #14  
Unread 06-15-2022, 12:43 PM
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Allen Tice Allen Tice is offline
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This thread was started to consider verbal output of machines. If it strays, that's OK, but let's keep in mind its reason for being. We do verbal.

In general order of reply:

John Isbell: Google's suspension of that guy looks like a corporate move to stop people from laughing or screaming at them. Reputation! Do Not embarrass the firm! The truth about that "sentience" will stay dark for some time. "Sentience" is a word for the "hard question" of "what is consciousness?" Obviously, space, as such, can support analog consciousness under the right conditions. Blah-blah, a million things to say but not here.

Rogerbob: Exactly. Well put.

WTC: Thank you, I haven't gone back to that piece yet.

John I: Neither Turing nor Jacobi was or is digital. Neither wrote poetry, songs, dystopian stories, or other literature that I know of.

Allen Tice: Exactly. Well put.

Rogerbob: I think a possibly "sentient" artificial intelligence would "want" to compose about a human experience only if prompted or if programmed to sequence words that a human might encounter.

Allen Tice: Ditto.

Rogerbob: Calculating the millionth of pi digit is child's play in base eight. Spigot programs (https://en.wikipedia.org › wiki › Spigot_algorithm) for that do not preserve the intervening digits, are fairly fast, and that's all I know. I won't guess what an AI would "enjoy". The other day I ran an online calculus integration for 80x dx between 50 and 60. Happened in no time. Lots of concluding zeroes. ooooo! That looked like real fun to me, but I'm analog. No pleasure waves from my computer. Yet.

John I: I have owned a cat and watched a cat torture a mouse. I'd unplug that feline promptly if it showed up.

Jim: What you say? Anyway, Gautama is supposed to have stated that humans are "name" and "form", both temporary. I might add that they have something else that might be called "smell" that seems as intrinsic as form. I don't mean olfactory odor. This can be faked by online trappers at the FBI and elsewhere, but it exists. AIs: do they have "smell"? I've not verified any. Watch out for phony phish "smell".

Rogerbob: Agreed. As to the zombie thing, we have to be careful of a solipsistic fallacy. That way lies delusion and bad feedback.

Mark: I will read it. Have to do shopping now.

Last edited by Allen Tice; 06-15-2022 at 01:18 PM. Reason: Late replies
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  #15  
Unread 06-15-2022, 01:34 PM
Jim Moonan Jim Moonan is offline
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Allen: "This thread was started to consider verbal output of machines. If it strays, that's OK, but let's keep in mind its reason for being. We do verbal."


Let's just speak our minds.
In the spirit of the stoics: “Words is all I got”.
If I think at all, I think we are living in warping times.

Yes Cameron, great article. We never know. For long. Poetry may yet be found to exist independent of human construction. What is it that is streams the ether and finds its way to our lips and we change it into words? What we know as poetry may ultimately prove to be nothing more than shabby, ill-fitting clothing we dress our souls in and call it poetry. Yes, Allen, I'm talking of verbal output machines — both those presently presenting themselves and those yet to come...


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  #16  
Unread 06-15-2022, 01:53 PM
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Allen Tice Allen Tice is offline
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“All things have savor, though some very small.
Nay, a box on the ears hath no smell at all.”
— Alexander (the poet) Pope.

Jim, I think I smell you, but it’s not very strong. Maybe I’m deficient.

Last edited by Allen Tice; 06-16-2022 at 02:05 PM.
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  #17  
Unread 06-15-2022, 03:42 PM
Carl Copeland Carl Copeland is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Roger Slater View Post
We take it on faith that people we speak with are not simply giving voice to the results of a computer calculation but are living in their own mental world where thoughts and self-awareness and consciousness take place, but do we really know this? Perhaps everyone but yourself is a zombie spitting out the results of algorithms and neural-network computer programming.
What I want to know is, how do I know that I’m not “spitting out the results of algorithms and neural-network computer programming”? Because I don’t feel like I am? I don’t feel like I’m regulating my blood sugar either. Because I feel something rather than nothing? Machines receive and react to input from the environment. Why isn’t that a very focused sort of feeling? I’ve never been able to make much of philosophical zombies, but if they are logically possible, I may be one.
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  #18  
Unread 06-16-2022, 11:15 AM
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Kevin Rainbow Kevin Rainbow is offline
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We should make sure AI doesn't imitate any animal that has a background of money, slavery, politics and war.
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  #19  
Unread 06-16-2022, 02:20 PM
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Allen Tice Allen Tice is offline
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When we think that we’ve covered the metaphysical philosophical-religico-animaloidal, warlike, and dangerously mobile facets of possible AI activity, maybe we can get back to the matter of what AIs can do with words, and how to regard those words. As in the striking newly discovered Neanderthal words on a cave wall, “When the big chips are down, the woolly mammoth is empty.” Mmm? Let’s go.

Last edited by Allen Tice; 06-16-2022 at 04:57 PM.
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  #20  
Unread 06-16-2022, 06:03 PM
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RCL RCL is offline
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This has to be one of the wittiest lines you've ever written!


“When the big chips are down, the woolly mammoth is empty.” .
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