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12-14-2024, 07:00 AM
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Join Date: Apr 2022
Location: St. Petersburg, Russia
Posts: 2,063
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Hi, Susan. Rick and Glenn are right on. The classical simplicity, directness, even matter-of-factness, make this elegy, if anything, more touching.
I know you’re not going to change “Homecoming,” and I’m not saying you should, but I’m trying to figure out why it irritates me too. It’s not that I don’t acknowledge promotion, because if I replace it with an inappropriate word like “christening,” it sounds fine to me. I suppose the meter still gives “-ing” a bit of stress, yielding a subtly wrenched “comING.” In “christening,” the “-ing” can outweigh the normally unstressed “-ten-” with impunity. I’m just thinking out loud; maybe someone can help me out.
Last edited by Carl Copeland; 12-14-2024 at 07:15 AM.
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12-14-2024, 08:33 AM
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Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Northern New Jersey
Posts: 9,066
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Hi Susan,
Roger's observation regarding the three unstressed syllables in a row is what I meant by having to follow a dactyl with an unambiguously stressed syllable. As you would in a sapphics hendecasyllabic, which is a metrically smooth line. I understand the importance of the word Homecoming, but a title does a lot of work. You can hook to it with words that work metrically and may even make things more interesting than repeating the word Homecoming three times. Try it as an exercise at least, I'd say. You never know! At this point, I'm getting stuck on both those lines.
Rick
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12-14-2024, 11:39 AM
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Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Iowa City, IA, USA
Posts: 10,331
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Hi, everyone, I have revisited the metrical issue, and I noticed that "homecoming" has a secondary stress on "com," so Pedro is right that the second foot should be scanned more as a trochee. That explains, too, why Carl found that "christening" didn't bother him for promoting the "-ing," but "homecoming" did. I am keeping the word, Rick, but will rethink how I say the line when reading it aloud. I think I value the effect of repetition in this case too much to want to lose the word.
Glenn, I am glad that the intended tone came across for you.
Joe, I try to avoid end-stopping when I can, partly so that I can get maximum variation into the rhythm of the lines. Also, I am trying to suggest wandering all over the campus, interspersed with pauses to spread the ashes near the buildings that were most significant to her. I am glad that the sadness came through.
Susan
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12-14-2024, 01:25 PM
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Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: Ellan Vannin
Posts: 3,560
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Hi Susan,
I stumbled over the questionable line too, but I agree that overall it is very affecting.
Cheers
David
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12-14-2024, 02:20 PM
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Join Date: Jul 2024
Location: New Mexico
Posts: 135
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I had no trouble with this metrically. I do hear the slight stress on the "com" of "homecoming", but the irregularity doesn't bother me. But I tend to take a looser approach to meter, so that may be why.
I like the sestet very much and think it is effective. The beginning didn't grab me particularly, but perhaps it is necessary to set the scene. I just can't help wondering what would happen if you condensed the first eight lines. (I know it wouldn't be a sonnet anymore, but does it need to be?)
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12-14-2024, 04:35 PM
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Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Iowa City, IA, USA
Posts: 10,331
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David and Hilary, thanks for giving me your reactions. I have rewritten the first stanza, eliminating the "Homecoming" and the "no more" in it, and adding a little information about the visit and the parade floats. For now, I am keeping the "Homecoming" in the second stanza, because otherwise readers would not realize that it is Homecoming weekend again for the second visit.
Susan
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12-15-2024, 07:59 AM
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Join Date: Aug 2016
Location: Boston, MA
Posts: 4,490
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.
First, the poignancy pent within this poem positively drips with poignancy.
Second, I've rarely seen you misstep in your editing, but removing "homecoming" (and the entirety of the changes made in the first stanza) diminishes the poem's power, imo. Imo, "homecoming" is the most potent word in the poem and having it occur twice doubled its potency. This preoccupation with perfect meter is destructive to this poem. Here's what you said to Rick in defense of keeping it:
...I wanted to keep repeating "Homecoming" because I wanted the other meaning of it to sink in gradually. But ...it also seemed strange that the only two times I was ever at the college were both on Homecoming weekend.
Is it your penchant for making your poems metrically flawless so strong that you forget the reader's part in the process? Fyi, on subsequent readings I interpreted the first "homecoming" metrical foot to be a lump in the throat.
Third, your revision of stanza one is so significant that I wish you had left the original intact and just posted a revised version above it so that readers can compare. As is, the reader now has no sense of what the poem has lost and what it has gained.
.
Last edited by Jim Moonan; 12-15-2024 at 08:21 AM.
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12-15-2024, 09:20 AM
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Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Northern New Jersey
Posts: 9,066
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Hi Susan,
I don't like the rewrite in the first stanza. The changed line has its own metrical trip-ups, and it's length is an indication that you're cramming things. But I'm still for eliminating Homecoming if you're going to stick with IP--that or go with sapphic hendecasyllabic meter's treatment of the dactyl.
On what was the second reference, Homecoming can be replaced with something like "the event," which does double duty, referencing the homecoming of the title and the end event.
Trust in your title and the reader! And as Duke Ellington famously advised, we have to find a way of saying it without saying.
Rick
Last edited by Rick Mullin; 12-15-2024 at 11:35 AM.
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12-15-2024, 09:54 AM
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Join Date: Sep 2024
Location: North of the River
Posts: 135
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Hi Susan.
I like how 'escort' gently sounds an ominous note.
I'm not sure the revised S1 improves.
Should there be a comma at the end of L1?
Wondered about
when I was just a child, our family made
the long drive. There were floats from the parade
we'd missed ...
?
And if that second homecoming (in S2) might be substituted with the month? September or October?
No way to start S3/L2 with 'here' is suppose?
Comma after 'here' in the final line?
RG
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12-15-2024, 01:29 PM
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Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Iowa City, IA, USA
Posts: 10,331
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All revisions I make are conditional. I wait to hear how they are working before making them permanent. I have taken Jim's advice to post both full versions of the poem so that readers can see how the changed first stanza fits with the whole. So far, it sounds as though people are not liking the revision, so I may revert to the original. However, I would be glad to have more responses before making a final decision.
Jim, I don't favor perfect meter. I like a lot of variation in my meter, more than the average reader is prepared to hear. However, I try to listen when people say that my variations are tripping them up.
Rick, as Jim mentioned, "Homecoming" is at the core of this poem, and I do not intend to remove it entirely from the body of the poem. It will ultimately show up either once or twice. But I am interested to hear that you don't like the rewritten S1.
Richard, I don't think I need the extra commas you suggest. I don't mean to get rid of "Homecoming" in the poem, despite its metrical challenges. But it is useful to hear that you don't like the revised S1.
Susan
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