Eratosphere Forums - Metrical Poetry, Free Verse, Fiction, Art, Critique, Discussions Able Muse - a review of poetry, prose and art

Forum Left Top

Notices

Reply
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #11  
Unread 10-30-2024, 12:05 PM
Richard G Richard G is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2024
Location: North of the River
Posts: 89
Default

Hi Matt,
read this a few times now, and it repays re-reading. I'm thinking that the emergence of the bruises suggests she was very recently dead when he found her, increasing the possibility that he actually killed her. Though I'm not sure he did. Blouse felt a little incompatible with his circumstances, unless she was there in some professional capacity, a health visitor of some sort? Don't know, but like the space to speculate.
Some nits: The 'grey mongrel bitch' line - seems one for the dog lovers/owners. Do you need it?
'the only roads he takes' - but then there are all the other ones (outside) in the woods, to the allotment, and the 'forked path' made the point already.
Home is how it always is. A forked path of carpet through an undergrowth of pizza boxes, unopened mail, empty bottles of cut-price coke. Left to kitchen, right to couch, the bedroom long since stolen by the woods.
Does 'cleaned-up face' mean to suggest that she cleaned up her face (removing traces of the assault), or that her face was as it was before the murder. (I couldn't tell.)
Do you need 'crashes in' (para4)? It might be better for the dream to be soundless to go with the 'stillness' of the 'almost Friday'.

I don't think you've nailed the ending yet (but I did like 'Bluebottles' - haven't thought about that term for the police in years) - the section between the doorbell and the door bursting in felt too long.
It's Sunday, and swarming with police ?

Regards,
RG

PS. Deserves a better title, I think.
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Unread 11-06-2024, 08:43 AM
Matt Q Matt Q is online now
Member
 
Join Date: May 2013
Location: England, UK
Posts: 5,263
Default

James and Richard,

Thanks both!

James,

Thanks for sticking with this. I've tweaked the close again, dropping "morning" to reduce amount of rhyme, so now the explicit mention of police has gone again. And now it's:

The door bursts in. It's Sunday and the dawn is swarming.


Richard

I'm pleased you enjoyed this, and thanks for your specific points, which gave me lots to think about.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard G View Post
The 'grey mongrel bitch' line - seems one for the dog lovers/owners. Do you need it?
I was hoping it was doing some work. "mongrel" to show it's not an expensive dog, "bitch" to show it's female: the oddity of naming all his dogs after his first dog seemed strengthened if that's done irrespective of their sex.

Quote:
'the only roads he takes' - but then there are all the other ones (outside) in the woods, to the allotment, and the 'forked path' made the point already.
I was intending to echo Frost's poem, "The Road Not Taken", here ("two roads diverge in a yellow wood"). I also have "diverge" in the previous sentence. Though I guess that may not add too much, if anything. I was also thinking these are the only paths in the house that he takes, and hadn't considered that it'd be read to include the outside. I think you're right that "the only roads he takes" could go. I'm definitely considering it.

Quote:
Does 'cleaned-up face' mean to suggest that she cleaned up her face (removing traces of the assault), or that her face was as it was before the murder. (I couldn't tell.)
I'd assumed "cleaned-up" would imply that it had previously been dirty, so post-murder. Though I don't think I mind which way it is read.

Quote:
Do you need 'crashes in' (para4)? It might be better for the dream to be soundless to go with the 'stillness' of the 'almost Friday'.
Maybe. I don't know. I think dream can be noisy and the outside world silent. Being asleep, he won't know that the dawn had been silent, of course, but I was thinking that his neighbours would, so this might be another thing that raises suspicion (or would be discovered by the police later).

Quote:
the section between the doorbell and the door bursting in felt too long
I did wonder about that. But I do them to find him muddy spade in hand. And the dogs signal the police, especially now the police are not explicitly mentioned.


Thanks again, both.

Matt

Last edited by Matt Q; 11-06-2024 at 08:47 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Unread 11-07-2024, 09:48 AM
Richard G Richard G is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2024
Location: North of the River
Posts: 89
Default

Hi Matt.

I was hoping it was doing some work. "mongrel" to show it's not an expensive dog,
Okay
"bitch" to show it's female:
Here's where I get a bit squeamish. Given the victim, what does the sex of the dog matter? It feels like I'm being told less about her than a dog.
the oddity of naming all his dogs after his first dog seemed strengthened if that's done irrespective of their sex.
Quite, so why mention their sex? (Also, I'm not sure there's much suggestion of different sexes.
like his first dog, like every dog he’s ever had.
and since his first is the same sex as the current one, one might infer that they were all female.)

I was intending to echo Frost's poem,
Yes I liked the play, you mention two paths diverging and that he takes both.

finding/grabbing the spade
But I do them to find him muddy spade in hand.
Aren't you, perhaps, over-egging this particular pudding? I think you might trust that 'spade still gripped in his muddy hands' will get the message across (regarding potential police discoveries.)

The next night, another dream. Bluebottles in their millions, emerging iridescent from her grave, buzzing insistent as a doorbell – wakes to banging, dogs barking, stumbles half-awake toward the door, freezes, can’t go further. It's Sunday. The dawn bursts in.

The 'wakes' / 'half-away' jars a bit. Maybe

The next night, another dream. Bluebottles in their millions, emerging iridescent from her grave, buzzing insistent as a doorbell – wakes to banging, the barking of dogs, grabs the spade, lurches toward the door, freezes. It's Sunday. The dawn bursts in.

Incidentally, might 'Sunday' make an alternative title?


RG.
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Unread 11-10-2024, 12:16 PM
Matt Q Matt Q is online now
Member
 
Join Date: May 2013
Location: England, UK
Posts: 5,263
Default

Hi Richard,

Thanks for coming back to this.

His dog is "Benjy, like his first dog, like every dog he's ever had". The first dog's name is Benjy, conventionally a male name. From this, I'd hoped the reader would conclude that his first dog was male. Hence it's relevant the the current dog is female, I think.

Are you reading "like his first dog, like every dog he's ever had" as also referring to "grey mongrel bitch"? I don't think, grammatically, it does. It could add "called" I'd guess, if it's unclear,

Yes, the ending sequence may be too long, though there may also be something to be said for varying the pace, slowing it down before the finale. I'm not fixed on what I have, and was just trying to explain why I have it. I'm not the faster reviser, but I do keep all the suggestions I get. Often I see things more clearly when I've put a piece a while and then come back to it. Thanks for the suggestions on a shorter version. I'll certainly be looking again at "half-awake" again, which, given the stumbling and the fact that he's just been woken from sleep, can could be surmised anyway. Also, "freezes" and "can't go further", as they duplicate each other somewhat.

"Sunday" is an interesting suggestion for a title, working with the naming of the days to give a sense that the story is working towards something, counting down. Thanks for that.

- Matt
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Unread 11-12-2024, 09:50 AM
Richard G Richard G is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2024
Location: North of the River
Posts: 89
Default

Hi Matt.

His dog is "Benjy, like his first dog, like every dog he's ever had". The first dog's name is Benjy, conventionally a male name.
Okay, but ... If I were a dog owner would I recognise 'Benjy' as being particularly indicative of something?
From this, I'd hoped the reader would conclude that his first dog was male. Hence it's relevant the the current dog is female, I think.
And the relevance would be ...? The dog rather disappears from the piece after that. Left at home on Thursday and no mention made thereafter.
Are you reading "like his first dog, like every dog he's ever had" as also referring to "grey mongrel bitch"? I don't think, grammatically, it does. It could add "called" I'd guess, if it's unclear,
Not quite, I was seeing him owning a (long-ish) line of (possibly grey) mongrels, all called Benjy, whatever their sex.
Regardless, I'm struggling to see the significance of the dog's name, when neither 'he' nor the murdered woman have a name. What inferences am I being invited to draw from the fact that it's the only names character?

By the way, would you consider changing 'TV day' to 'TV Saturday'?

RG.
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Unread 11-12-2024, 11:02 AM
Matt Q Matt Q is online now
Member
 
Join Date: May 2013
Location: England, UK
Posts: 5,263
Default

Hi Richard,

Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard G View Post
Hi Matt.
Okay, but ... If I were a dog owner would I recognise 'Benjy' as being particularly indicative of something?
That's not my intention. As long as the name is recognisably male, that's all I'm really after here.

Quote:
And the relevance would be ...? The dog rather disappears from the piece after that. Left at home on Thursday and no mention made thereafter
That he names all his dogs after his first dog, irrespective of sex. From this various things might be concluded by the reader about his psychological/mental development. Maybe he's trying to hold onto or recreate his childhood. Maybe he's developmentally very stuck (and in still in many respects a child). Maybe he has a very stunted imagination. Basically, to use a technical term, that there's something odd or "not right" about him.

Quote:
Not quite, I was seeing him owning a (long-ish) line of (possibly grey) mongrels, all called Benjy, whatever their sex.
OK, that's good to know. That's what I'm after. Earlier you said, "I'm not sure there's much suggestion of different sexes ... since his first is the same sex as the current one, one might infer that they were all female", which had me wondering if what I'd intended was coming across -- that his first dog was male.

Quote:
Regardless, I'm struggling to see the significance of the dog's name, when neither 'he' nor the murdered woman have a name. What inferences am I being invited to draw from the fact that it's the only names character?
The only significance I intended with the dog's name was the one above, to show something about the man. There's not much context in the story for the woman's name -- she isn't in a position to give it, after all. And story is altered quite a bit if the man knows it --- or, if he does know it, it's altered quite a bit if he reveals that he knows it.

Quote:
By the way, would you consider changing 'TV day' to 'TV Saturday'?
I'd rather imply that the day of the week doesn't matter, that most days are TV days. I think "TV Saturday" might imply that this his TV days primarily happen on Saturdays (or weekends), which in turn might suggest that he has a job.

cheers,

Matt
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks


Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump



Forum Right Top
Forum Left Bottom Forum Right Bottom
 
Right Left
Member Login
Forgot password?
Forum LeftForum Right


Forum Statistics:
Forum Members: 8,467
Total Threads: 22,367
Total Posts: 276,310
There are 981 users
currently browsing forums.
Forum LeftForum Right


Forum Sponsor:
Donate & Support Able Muse / Eratosphere
Forum LeftForum Right
Right Right
Right Bottom Left Right Bottom Right

Hosted by ApplauZ Online