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  #1  
Unread 05-30-2025, 02:17 PM
Glenn Wright Glenn Wright is online now
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Default Tough Room

Tough Room

      “Good morning. I’m Mr. Allegri. I’ll be your teacher for the rest of the year.”
      “What happened to Mrs. Slowitz?”
      “She won’t be coming back. I want to get to know your names and a little about each of you, so when I call your last name, tell me the first name you’d like me to use. Also tell me one thing about yourself that you feel comfortable sharing.”
      “Like what?”
      “Well, for example, if you have a pet or a favorite food. I’ll be making a seating chart, so please be sure to sit in your assigned seat each day.”
      “Mrs. Slowitz didn’t make us sit in assigned seats.”
      “I’m not Mrs. Slowitz.”
      “She let us sit with our friends so we could learn better.”
      “You are free to sit with your friends outside of class. In class, you will sit where you are told to sit.”
      “I have to go to the bathroom.”
      “Can it wait until—”
      “I have to go to the bathroom, too.”
      “Okay, we’ll have a break soon.”
      “I can’t wait.”
      “Me neither.”
      “Do you both have a medical condition?”
      “If I tell you I gotta go, then you have to let me go!”
      “Me, too!”
      “Okay. I’ll call the office on the intercom and have them send security to escort you to the rest room.”
      “Never mind.”
      “Mr. Allergy? Your name on the board looks like ‘allergy.’ I’m gonna call you that.”
      “If you do that, everyone will think you have dyslexia.”
      “You saying I’m stupid?”
      “No, I think you cleared that up for us all by yourself. Now sit down and be quiet, please. And put that football under your chair.”
      “Mr. Allegri? Your fly is open.”
      “What?!”
      “Made you look!”
      “When I call your last name—”
      “We know. We tell you the first name we want you to call us.”
      “Anderson?”
      “You can call me Big Bulge.”
      “I’ll call you Harold. Tell us one thing about yourself that you want us to know, Harold.”
      “I think I just did.”
      “Andrews?”
      “Lucy. I have a cat.”
      “What’s your cat’s name, Lucy?”
      “Freddy Krueger.”
      “Chan?”
      “Sam.”
      “Can you tell us something about yourself, Sam?”
      “I like ice cream.”
      “Everybody likes ice cream, Dummy!”
      “Rule number one: we don’t say rude, insulting things to each other in this class.”
      “How many rules are there gonna be?”
      “As many as I decide you need. If you behave badly, you get rules and consequences. If you show respect, you get respect and privileges. Charbonneau?”
      “Marty. I like football.”
      “Do you play on a team?”
      “Pop Warner.”
      “I used to play on a Pop Warner team.”
      “This is the last year for our team. They got sued for concussions.”
      “All those concussions made Marty mental.”
      “One of your friends?”
      “Yeah.”
      “Heads up, Allergy!”
      “Augh!”
      “Here, Mr. Allegri, take these tissues. Don’t get blood on me.”
      “Thanks, Lucy. Please go to the office and tell the principal that I quit.”
—————————————
Edits:
§2: What happened to the other teacher, Mrs. Warner? > What happened to Mrs. Slowitz?
§3: She left. > She won’t be coming back. . . . Also tell me one thing about yourself that you feel comfortable sharing.
“Like what?”
“Well, for example, if you have a pet or a favorite food. . . .”
§6: Warner > Slowitz
§7: Warner > Slowitz
§16: Do you have a medical condition? > Do you both have a medical condition?
§24: Now sit down and be quiet, please. > Now sit down and be quiet, please. And put that football under your chair.
§26: What? . . . I . . . > What?!
§30: Allison > Anderson
§55: So that’s what’s wrong with you, Marty! I’m just kidding! > All those concussions made Marty an MR. > All those concussions made Marty mental.
§59: Augh! You broke my nose! Why would you throw a football at my head in a classroom? Look at this! I’m bleeding all over myself. > Augh!
§60: Here, Mr. Allegri. > Here, Mr. Allegri. You’re bleeding all over yourself. > Here, Mr. Allegri, take these tissues. Don’t get blood on me.

Last edited by Glenn Wright; 06-03-2025 at 02:49 PM.
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  #2  
Unread 06-01-2025, 09:12 AM
Richard G Richard G is offline
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Hi Glenn.

It's a familiar story, but not necessarily the worse for that. Sometimes it's the ride rather than the destination that matters and large parts of this were fun. In particular the second student trying to go to the bathroom but being ignored by the teacher. I'd have liked a bit more of that.

You keep on over-explaining and that is to the piece's detriment, I think. In L2 any reader could infer who Mrs. Warner was from the context (so why 'the other teacher'?) Also, perhaps "I was told she left"?

But what really undoes all the good work is this

“Augh! You broke my nose! Why would you throw a football at my head in a classroom? Look at this! I’m bleeding all over myself.”

It's totally unnecessary, robs the ending of any humour and, perhaps more importantly, sounds like what it is; an explanation for the reader not natural speech.

If you omitted that line (and inserted a blank space) the ending becomes

“Heads up, Allergy!”


“Here, Mr. Allegri. Take these tissues.”
“Thanks, Lucy. Please go to the office and tell the principal that I quit.”


(Let the 'pop Warner' reference do it's work, and cut the 'just kidding'.)


Similarly

“Mr. Allegri? Your fly is open.”


“Made you look!”


Is, I think, funnier.


I did wonder why no other student tried to top the Allergy gag (surely some would be competing with each other?) There seems space for an allegory joke in there somewhere.

Just a thought, but you might consider left aligning the teacher and right aligning the students.

Ellipses don't indicate an interrupted speech you need an em dash.

Is there a way to better indicate the ages of the students? It's difficult to assess their speech without knowing roughly how old they're supposed to be. (I'm guessing fifteen/sixteen but the was the teacher talks "if you behave badly you get ..." makes them seem much, much younger, ten or eleven.)

Also, perhaps a bit more focus on differentiating the voices of students and teacher?
“So that’s what’s wrong with you, Marty! I’m just kidding.”
The first time I read that line I thought it was the teacher talking.

And why the duplication of names? Mrs. Warner and pop Warner football?

Lastly, you open with reference to "making a seating chart" but I can't see a trace of a single seat being assigned during the piece (or that the teacher is considering where to place students.)

RG
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  #3  
Unread 06-01-2025, 12:54 PM
Glenn Wright Glenn Wright is online now
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Hi, Richard—

Thanks for the very helpful critique!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard G View Post
You keep on over-explaining and that is to the piece's detriment, I think.
But what really undoes all the good work is this
“Augh! You broke my nose! Why would you throw a football at my head in a classroom? Look at this! I’m bleeding all over myself.”
Good critique. I got rid of some of the over-explaining.

Is there a way to better indicate the ages of the students? It's difficult to assess their speech without knowing roughly how old they're supposed to be. (I'm guessing fifteen/sixteen but the was the teacher talks "if you behave badly you get ..." makes them seem much, much younger, ten or eleven.).
I’m imagining them as middle school students, so about 13 years old.

And why the duplication of names? Mrs. Warner and pop Warner football?
This was an unfortunate coincidence. I chose the name “Warner” for the previous teacher because I imagined her warning students “Stop that, or else!” but not following through with a consequence. I changed her name.

Lastly, you open with reference to "making a seating chart" but I can't see a trace of a single seat being assigned during the piece (or that the teacher is considering where to place students.).
Since he’s just meeting them for the first time, he’s writing them down where they are sitting. He plans to move them around when he gets to know them better and figures out who should not sit near whom.
Glenn
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  #4  
Unread 06-02-2025, 07:31 AM
Richard G Richard G is offline
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Hi Glenn,

I got rid of some of the over-explaining.
To me it looks like you simply changed one set of explanations for a slightly different set. Try leaving something for the reader.

(Except in this instance!)
I’m imagining them as middle school students, so about 13 years old.
Great, now what is there to tell the reader this?

I changed her name.
And not for the better. All I can hear now are 'slow tits' jokes. You don't need to have names that have meaning, just one's that sound natural/plausible.

Since he’s just meeting them for the first time, he’s writing them down where they are sitting.
Except there is no evidence that he is because of the style you've chosen (and the style works.)
I think you can cut the reference and some of the accompanying text and not lose anything.

“Good morning. I’m Mr. Allegri. I’ll be your teacher for the rest of the year.”
“What happened to Mrs. Slowitz?”
“She won’t be coming back. I want to get to know your names and a little about each of you, so when I call your last name, tell me the first name you’d like me to use. Also tell me one thing about yourself that you feel comfortable sharing, like if you have a pet or a favorite food.
“Mr. Allergy? Your name on the board looks like ‘allergy.’ I’m gonna call you that.”
“If you do that, everyone will think you have dyslexia.”
“You saying I’m stupid?”
“No, I think you cleared that up for us all by yourself. Now sit down and be quiet, please. And put that football under your chair.”
“I have to go to the bathroom.”
“Can it wait until . . .”
“I have to go to the bathroom, too.”
“Okay, we’ll have a break soon.”
“I can’t wait.”
“Me neither.”
“Do you have a medical condition?”
“If I tell you I gotta go, then you have to let me go!”
“Me, too!”
“Okay. I’ll call the office on the intercom and have them send security to escort you to the rest room.”
“Never mind.”
“Mr. Allegri? Your fly is open.”
“What?!”
“Made you look!”

(re. Dyslexia. I think 'everyone might think' is a bit much, perhaps 'people might think'?)

He plans to move them around when he gets to know them better and figures out who should not sit near whom.

So what?


§3: She left. > She won’t be coming back
She left was funnier for being so unadorned. You've just added an explanation where none were needed.
. . . . Also tell me one thing about yourself that you feel comfortable sharing, like if you have a pet or a favorite food.
The examples 'pet/favourite food' would work better if given in response to a student's question.

... comfortable sharing."
"Like what."
"Mister ..? "
"Ben"
"McDonald? Well, how about a favourite pet, or what food you enjoy the most? It's up to you."

§22: Now sit down and be quiet, please. > Now sit down and be quiet, please. And put that football under your chair.
This would work better nearer to the beginning, for me it comes in too late and so feels clunky.

§24: What? . . . I . . . > What?!
The made you look doesn't make sense in response to a question. Leave a gap.


§53: So that’s what’s wrong with you, Marty! I’m just kidding! > All those concussions made Marty an MR.
Don't know what an MR is, but 'concussions' just undercuts the ending (and why would the speaker offer that information?) Stop explaining.

§57: Augh! You broke my nose! Why would you throw a football at my head in a classroom? Look at this! I’m bleeding all over myself. > Augh!
Still not as funny as silence. Less is more.

§58: Here, Mr. Allegri. > Here, Mr. Allegri. You’re bleeding all over yourself.
Giving him a tissue was funny allowing the reader to infer bleeding. 'You're bleeding' is just you explaining, and does it sound like something a 13 year old girl would say? Sounds more like her grandmother.

RG

Last edited by Richard G; 06-02-2025 at 07:42 AM.
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  #5  
Unread 06-02-2025, 01:23 PM
Glenn Wright Glenn Wright is online now
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Hi, Richard

Thanks for sticking with me on this piece. Your suggestions are very helpful. I used several of them, and even the ones I ended up not using helped me rethink and justify in my own mind my reasons for writing it as I did.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard G View Post
I’m imagining them as middle school students, so about 13 years old.
Great, now what is there to tell the reader this?
They might be precocious seventh graders or immature ninth graders. Harold’s preoccupation with his own genitalia suggests that they are on the cusp of puberty.


I changed her name.
And not for the better. All I can hear now are 'slow tits' jokes. You don't need to have names that have meaning, just one's that sound natural/plausible.
I wanted to suggest that the “slow wits” of the previous teacher might have contributed to the out-of-control class behavior. It’s comedy. I’m willing to use some unrealistic exaggeration to get a smile from the reader. Like Lieutenant Scheisskopf in Heller’s Catch-22.

The examples 'pet/favourite food' would work better if given in response to a student's question.
Agreed. I made this adjustment.


§53: So that’s what’s wrong with you, Marty! I’m just kidding! > All those concussions made Marty an MR.
Don't know what an MR is, but 'concussions' just undercuts the ending (and why would the speaker offer that information?)
“MR” is an abbreviation for “mentally retarded.” I decided that “mental” sounded more believable in the mouth of an adolescent. He’s teasing his friend.

§58: Here, Mr. Allegri. > Here, Mr. Allegri. You’re bleeding all over yourself.
Giving him a tissue was funny allowing the reader to infer bleeding. 'You're bleeding' is just you explaining, and does it sound like something a 13 year old girl would say? Sounds more like her grandmother.
I want to show Lucy as a more mature, compassionate student. Similarly, Sam Chan is shy and bullied. I wanted to present a spectrum of adolescent types, not just knuckleheads.

Last edited by Glenn Wright; 06-02-2025 at 01:37 PM.
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  #6  
Unread 06-03-2025, 07:16 AM
Richard G Richard G is offline
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Hi Glenn.

They might be precocious seventh graders or immature ninth graders. Harold’s preoccupation with his own genitalia suggests that they are on the cusp of puberty.
Precisely so, why don't you let the reader know which? As I said, it makes interpreting the dialogue harder if one doesn't know their ages. Funny/precocious is different from funny/immature.

I wanted to suggest that the “slow wits” of the previous teacher might have contributed to the out-of-control class behavior. It’s comedy.
But why? The 'out of control class/substitute teacher' is a familiar trope, this just seems like you explaining something, again.

Why are you trying to explain this (which makes no difference to the story) but not tell the reader how old the students are, which does?

“Like what?”
“We’ll, for example, if you have a pet or a favorite food. I’ll be making a seating chart, so please be sure to sit in your assigned seat each day.”

It's a bit clunky.
"Like what?"
"Like whatever you like. ...."
-- Wouldn't a teacher be trying for something a bit more educational than pet/food (unless the class is one of six year olds?) Favourite book, film that sort of thing?


“Do you both have a medical condition?”

You changed this to include both students. It was funnier when the teacher was ignoring one of them.

“MR” is an abbreviation for “mentally retarded.” I decided that “mental” sounded more believable in the mouth of an adolescent. He’s teasing his friend.

It's better, but it's so close to the teacher being hit in the face/head by a football that it undercuts that joke.


I want to show Lucy as a more mature, compassionate student. Similarly, Sam Chan is shy and bullied. I wanted to present a spectrum of adolescent types, not just knuckleheads.

I know, and you did it with the offer of a tissue. The bleeding is you not trusting the reader.
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  #7  
Unread 06-03-2025, 12:23 PM
Glenn Wright Glenn Wright is online now
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Hi, Richard

Thanks for giving me plenty to think about. I appreciate your continuing interest in my story.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard G View Post
They might be precocious seventh graders or immature ninth graders. Harold’s preoccupation with his own genitalia suggests that they are on the cusp of puberty.
Precisely so, why don't you let the reader know which? As I said, it makes interpreting the dialogue harder if one doesn't know their ages. Funny/precocious is different from funny/immature.
I can’t think of a graceful way to work in the information of exactly which grade the students are in, and I really don’t think it’s necessary.

“Do you both have a medical condition?”
You changed this to include both students. It was funnier when the teacher was ignoring one of them.
That’s me worrying again that the reader might be confused about who is speaking. I like “both” because it underscores the teacher’s skepticism that the students really have to go to the bathroom and his suspicion that they really just want to go have a smoke. (Which was apparently well-founded).
Glenn

Last edited by Glenn Wright; 06-03-2025 at 12:37 PM.
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  #8  
Unread 06-03-2025, 12:35 PM
Richard G Richard G is offline
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Hi Glenn.

and I really don’t think it’s necessary.

I'd argue that it is. Why not see if you can get it into the title?

I like “both” because it underscores the teacher’s skepticism that the students really have to go to the bathroom and his suspicion that they really just want to go have a smoke. (Which was apparently well-founded).
Fair enough. To me though, having one speaker ignored brought some of the chaotic nature of the scene to the page. Everything else is strictly Teacher says then Student says. I can't imagine that the students would all politely wait their turn to speak. That exchange delivered the an element of cacophony that is missing from the rest.
Also, why does the teacher's scepticism need to be underscored? Who was doubting it?
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Unread 06-03-2025, 01:18 PM
Glenn Wright Glenn Wright is online now
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Hi, Richard

I finally corrected the punctuation on the interruptions.

I gave more thought to the next-to-last line. I’m willing to believe that the reader could figure out that Mr. Allegri got hit by the football without my mentioning his nose specifically, but I want some mention of blood to indicate the seriousness of his injury. Just offering tissues might suggest that he’s crying.

Thanks, again!

Glenn
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  #10  
Unread Yesterday, 10:41 AM
Richard G Richard G is offline
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Hi Glenn.

I finally corrected the punctuation on the interruptions.
Looks better.

but I want some mention of blood to indicate the seriousness of his injury. Just offering tissues might suggest that he’s crying.
Precisely. Give the reader a choice. And besides, blood isn't much of an indicator of seriousness here. Consider a nose bleed contrasted with weeping. In the latter there is arguably, and with no pun intended, a loss of face, in the former, not so much. You chose to leave out all the dialogue markers and descriptions but then insisted on putting information into various mouths that sounds unnatural to compensate. It really isn't necessary (unless you intend this for a pre-teen audience, and even then it probably isn't.)

precocious seventh graders or immature ninth graders
I'm not familiar with the US system, so these don't mean that much to me. But, I'd imagine if you retitled it "Failing nth Grade" (and picking whatever value of n works best) you give the audience the information they need, and not lose anything in doing so. The ambiguity surrounding 'failing' resonates, I think.
Incidentally "Tough crowd" combined with the opening few lines immediately set up the expectation that something would happen to the teacher and when the football is the only object mentioned it was easy to predict what. You might give some thought to hiding it among bags that are a trip hazard, phones out, that sorts of things that need to be put away (and moving it closer to the beginning.)
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