[Jan Iwaszkiewicz]

On Reading Eliot

I sit deliberating my disguise.
Rat’s feet behaving as the wind behaves
in sudden scurries over dying grass.
I hear dried voices whispering on graves
that hold the eyes I dare not meet. Alas!

Swords drawn, priest-king and slave go round the tree
where both forget the feel of whispered bone,
forget the taste of blood in the violent hour,
forget the crown and forget the throne,
all is forgotten, they vie for power.

The sky called “Man sieht nur das, was man weiss.”
The blind and dead know what they see,
to know what’s never seen there comes a price.
The old god’s crucified upon the tree,
one eye becomes the moon in sacrifice.

The ferrymaster’s pacing round the deck.
The eyeless dead slow-sidle down the plank
unpleasant and hollow in their helplessness.
Uniformly mewling, rank upon rank
they spit out coin to pay for nothingness.

The Damned have no purpose In Death’s dreams,
only a solitary existence
with tongueless jaws and fractured screams.
They have no hope of transcendence
as everything there is just what it seems,


“Man sieht nur das, was man weiss.”
“You only see what you know”

Goethe

[Alex Pepple]

Hello, Jan,

Without Eliot in the title, this would be deliciously disorienting in a postmodern way. With the title, the allusions fall more clearly into place: I can see how this channels Eliot—through its collage-like assembly of images, its open-ended transcendental gestures, and the occasional foreign phrase used with evocative ambiguity.

I’m not always sure where it’s coming from or where it’s headed—but it’s a fascinating landscape of canonical, philosophical, and mythic reference.

That said, I wonder whether the poem might benefit from a stronger connective thread—either thematically or narratively—between the stanzas. Could there be more connectedness in the progression of the stanza and/or a more discernible commonality amongst them? As it stands, the poem risks making the reader reach for threads of meaning that might not have been intended to exist. Some added cohesion or intentional anchoring could clarify its aims without diluting its mystery.

Still, I found it both compelling and challenging—an evocative journey with plenty to admire. Good luck with this, Jan!

Cheers,
...Alex

[Jan Iwaszkiewicz]

The connective thread Alex is as in Eliot is Death from Death’s Dream Kingdom to Phlebas the Phoenician and Stetson and the dog here death ties the stanzas together from the graves to Nemi to Odin to Chiron and on to the Dream Kingdom.

Eliot was one of the major poetical influences in my youth and rereading triggered this I am not sure whether this is a homage or is hubris.

Jan

[Hilary Biehl]

I like the first line, the "dried voices whispering on graves," the eye of the sacrificed god becoming the moon (if I am reading that correctly).

I wonder if there might be a more oblique or subtle way to achieve the nightmarish quality? Particularly in stanzas 4 and 5, (as opposed to "unpleasant," "mewling," "helplessness," "fractured screams" etc ...). Maybe it's just me, but I think when writing a poem explicitly about death one has to be particularly careful, because it can so easily become a sort of self-parody with histrionic imagery and vocabulary ...

Do you need "alas" in the first stanza? That feels so old-fashioned and artificial to me, as well as perhaps rhyme-driven.

I'm guessing the "in" in "In Death's dreams" is not supposed to be capitalized.

[Mark McDonnell]

"Alas!" Is in reference to "headpiece filled with straw. Alas" from The Hollow Men, I assume.

At first I was put off by how many direct lifts there seemed to be from Eliot and wondered if it was justifiable. I'm no expert and I spotted quite a few. After a few readings, I started to appreciate the skill with which you've woven them together and built something new from structure and rhyme. It's a very deliberate disguise, if you will. So, I'm kind of in two minds but I think it's a sincere, very well-constructed tribute.

Mark

[Hilary Biehl]

Originally Posted by Mark McDonnell

"Alas!" Is in reference to "headpiece filled with straw. Alas" from The Hollow Men, I assume.

Does it matter? Reference or not, I don't think it works here.

Edited to add: personally, I think a poem, even in tribute to another poet, needs to justify its being somehow. It has to do more than simply weave references together.

[Mark McDonnell]

I think it does matter that it's an allusion because the fact of it being an allusion offsets and justifies its artificial, old-fashioned-ness. It gives it a reason for being there.

Edit responding to your edit Hilary: like I said, I'm no expert. I don't think the poem is entirely made of references. I just noticed a few.

[Hilary Biehl]

Originally Posted by Mark McDonnell

I think it does matter that it's an allusion because the fact of it being an allusion offsets and justifies its artificial, old-fashioned-ness. It gives it a reason for being there.

We will just have to disagree, I guess. I think a poem should still sound like it belongs to its time period, even if it's alluding to an older poem. I recognize that not everyone will agree with that, and that's fine. But the only reason I would ever use "alas" in a poem would be for humorous effect.

[Mark McDonnell]

I think a poem should still sound like it belongs to its time period, even if it's alluding to an older poem.

I understand this and very often I'd agree. I think this poem is attempting to sound out of time in its language, however, rather than contemporary. I think, too, that even in 1922 Eliot's use of "Alas" in The Hollow Men was, if not humorous at least deliberately melodramatic.

But I know what you're getting at.

[Hilary Biehl]

Originally Posted by Mark McDonnell

I think, too, that even in 1922 Eliot's use of "Alas" in The Hollow Men was, if not humorous at least deliberately melodramatic.

I agree with that assessment of Eliot's use of it, but I guess I'm uncertain whether this poem is going for a similar effect. Is it taking itself too seriously? Perhaps I am simply missing the point or not appreciating the intended effect. I don't know.