[Nick McRae]

Rev 1:

Italian Mountain

Sorrowful eyes.
A heart longing for an italian mountain.
A village of mandolin and painting
a horizon of feathered gold.

At night she dreams of the beautiful one.
But he fades. She wakes.

A life diminished
by the sea that cannot break free.
It's tide husked by the moon.
Swelling, only to recede.
Her love contained.

Original:

Italian Mountain

Sorrow filled eyes.
A heart longing for an italian mountain.
A village of mandolin and painting,
a horizon of feathered gold.

At night she dreams of the beautiful one.
But he fades. She wakes.

A life diminished,
by the sea that cannot break free.
It's tide husked by the moon.
Swelling, only to recede.
Her love contained.

[Elyjah Bassford]

Heya! First, I love the syntactical ambiguity in this poem, such as in lines 1, 7, and 11. Assuming you intended it as such, it cleverly demonstrates the emotionally entrapped state of the subject, as her longings for love merely hold her in place (verbs become nouns). The eponymous image of "an Italian mountain" is just vague and romantic enough to work, I think, and the etymologically coded transition between "wakes" (meant to suggest, I assume, the trail left by a moving boat in water) and the tides is subtle and smart. I also like the horizon motif in relation to everything else. The central concept is, I reckon, somewhat common, but the minimalist, psychologically-influenced geographical approach is a worthy means of execution.

I do think that some of the lines are perhaps too colloquial for their own good. I suppose the common vernacular may indicate that the images the subject yearns for exist more in pictured fantasy than reality, but I don't think the common parlance has the right effect for this poem.

I'm looking specifically at "sorrow filled eyes" which, although I love the aforementioned syntactic ambiguity, is a bit too colloquial foe my taste (derived as it is from "sorrowful"). Maybe a slightly more concrete image is in order? Something like "sorrow salted eyes" (which connects later to the tides).

Is there a reason "Italian" is uncapitalized in line 2? I might think it's meant to destabilize the national character (how "Italian" is this imaginary mountain, etc.), but I think it's more distracting than it's worth.

Something about "painting" in line 3 throws me off. I suppose this refers to Italy's treasured tradition of Renaissance art, but I fear it's too non-specific. I do like that's it (along with the mandolin) is a motif of artifice (as artificial as the envisioned "Italian mountain" in the subject's mind). Maybe something about the commedia dell'arte? "A village of mandolin and lazzo".

I don't think you need "at night" in the first line of stanza 2. Unless abnormally afflicted (or napping, I suppose), dreams occur at night. If "at night" implies a regular occurrence, maybe something like "Every dream, she sees the beautiful one." Similarly, I don't think you need the line "Swelling, only to recede" in stanza 3, as the image of the tides naturally implies that ebb and flow. That said, I don't know if I quite get the "husking" metaphor, besides adding an agricultural layer which I don't think adds much to the poem. I may just be missing something obvious, though.

I'll stop there for now. I like a lot about this poem, and I think it just has a little bit more to go!

- EB

Edit: Just one more thing. In stanza 3, line 3, shouldn't it be "its" rather than "it's"? That might just be more playing with the syntax, but I find it just a little distracting.

[Nick McRae]

Hi Elyjah,

Many thanks for the great critique, you've given me a lot to think about. There is a lot to respond to, but needless to say I found all of your comments helpful. I'm really not that clever in some of the word choices, but it's interesting to hear your interpretation. Cherry picking a few of your points below:

On the colloquial point I definitely aim for common and simple vernacular in my poetry, it's intentional for better or worse.

On 'husked' I see a connection between the word 'husk' and 'moon' (husked moon, although I'm not sure such a thing exists). Husk is also less obvious than some of the word choices I was using before and adds an element of colour and ambiguity to the line that I like. I also see a connection between it and the next line, in that the sea is pared back. That being said I hadn't thought of the fact that I was introducing a new theme to the poem, so I appreciate you pointing that out. Keeping the overall picture cohesive is a great idea that I hadn't considered.

In reply to your comments about 'at night' and 'swelling, only to recede' I would call those rhythmic additions. On the latter the hope was to invoke the subject's heart (or emotion, or love) swelling, and then inevitably being pulled back into it's place.

And on 'it's' that's a British grammatical rule, and I can't seem to stop writing it that way. I get nailed on it poem after poem, thanks for pointing it out.

I'll wrap up my reply there, but thanks again for taking some time with this one.
Nick

[Trevor Conway]

Hey Nick,

I found there was too much straining for emotion here, with sorrow-filled eyes, longing, he fades and love contained. I think it's best to try to get those feelings across in a subtler way. A focus on the mountain might be necessary, with only some ocasional references to the story associated with it
(relatively fragmented and obscurely described to give some intrigue/interest).

I like "husked" without knowing exactly what you mean; interesting choice.

I also liked the mandolin and painting references, but I'd like to see them explored. Who played teh mandolin? What did it sound like? Same for the painter(s). There's scope for a lot more detail, a much longer and more involving poem. It feels to me like you've just glanced off the surface here and given details that feel relatively generic, whereas more specific/personal details could really make this poem, the mountain itself, come alive and make the reader imagine he/she is there, loving it, getting carried away.

All the best,

Trevor

[Nick McRae]

Thanks Trevor,

You've hit on one of the central aspects of my writing style. I've tried writing a more detailed poem a few times recently (which would have been destined for the metrical forum). But the poems end up feeling antithetical to my voice.

Over the past few years my writing's evolved towards minimalism and high level details (as you see here). For whatever reason I just seem to like concision these days. Chiselling the poem down to it's bare bones. But I do wonder if I could expand this one a little, as you say. And I definitely see where you're coming from as this isn't a common way of writing poetry.

Thanks again for commenting,
Nick

[John Riley]

Nick, I see good intentions here but starting off with “Sorrow filled eyes” snaps its neck out of the gate. What does sorrow look like? Classic example of show don’t tell, the much maligned perfect writing suggestion. What type of mountain and town? The “beautiful one” is almost OMG.

I have a rep for being an assblank. My suggestion is to go through it and ask and answer all the unknowns here and rewrite with those bolts and boards. Where does she sleep? Why the beautiful one? Write the story and then the poem.

Hope this helps.

[Nick McRae]

John, thanks for weighing in.

I'll try not to venture into defending the poem, but for the sake of conversation I think there's the possibility of some words invoking a feeling in of themselves, even if they aren't concrete.

It's not that I don't see your point, I just find the 'show, don't tell' advice taken to it's extreme at times. It must be a matter of taste as there is a lot of material that people love, that I just don't. Poems that are filled with concrete, disparate images, and when I get to the end of the poem I feel like my senses have been stimulated, but I don't feel much wiser.

That being said you weighing in definitely helps me understand how the poem is being read, so please don't take this as argumentative. I just enjoy discussing poetry (what else does one do??).

Thanks again

[Hilary Biehl]

There are some interesting images here, Nick.

I'm with others on the "sorrow-filled eyes." On the fence about "the beautiful one". If it's referring only to a human lover then it's a bit over the top, but it did make me think of Platonic forms and ideals.

Could you possibly lose the comma at the end of L7, or would that change the meaning in a way you don't intend?

[Nick McRae]

Originally Posted by Hilary Biehl

There are some interesting images here, Nick.

I'm with others on the "sorrow-filled eyes." On the fence about "the beautiful one". If it's referring only to a human lover then it's a bit over the top, but it did make me think of Platonic forms and ideals.

Could you possibly lose the comma at the end of L7, or would that change the meaning in a way you don't intend?

Thanks for the comment on 'the beautiful one', I hadn't seen that. It's a phrase taken from Leonard Cohen's poem The Asthmatic, in his title Death of a Lady's Man. In that context it's emblematic of the ideal lover that the subject doesn't have, and who she longs for, because she doesn't find who she's with fulfilling. I guess a reader might not pick up on that, but I do like introducing that ambiguity

On Sorrow filled, do you think 'Sorrowful' would work, or does it need a complete re-write?

Thanks for weighing in

[John Riley]

Nick, I’ll leave you with your poem but must say no one is suggesting “concrete, disparate images.” That would be crappy poetry. I’m talking about asking what do sorrowful eyes look like? There is always an image—the right image—that would make this much more effective.