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Yesterday, 04:15 PM
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Join Date: May 2013
Location: England, UK
Posts: 5,207
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Clive, Carl, and Susan, thanks!
Clive,
Thanks for the examples of lines which start with two stressed and comma-separated syllables. It was helpful to see them. I'm certainly familiar with non-comma-separated version. As you say, a classic move. And your examples with commas didn't trouble me at all.
I think in considering your suggested fix, I just got a bit confused in the process of trying to work out why my comma-separated spondee wasn't working for people -- and if it didn't, whether a comma-separated opening spondee would. The trochee-spondee combination is a fairly common IP move, after all. I've concluded the reason my line isn't being heard as such is because there's a caesura -- not just a comma -- between the two stressed syllables. Which makes sense, I think.
Carl and Susan
Fair enough. I'll think on alternatives to verbing that noun. For now, though, I've removed the errant comma that ends the preceding line, which will certainly have confused things a fair bit. Now that it reads, "These shining prizes that I should have won wraith from the woods" is it any clearer that "wraith" is a verb?
Carl,
As above on the spondee, I think the caesura nobbles it.
Susan
I've lost count of how many many missing feet of mine you've caught over the years. It's much appreciated!
--Matt
Last edited by Matt Q; Yesterday at 04:24 PM.
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Yesterday, 04:16 PM
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Member
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Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: New York
Posts: 16,632
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Matt, your scansion confirms that there are six strong beats to the line. I did not experience the extra beat as part of a spondee, but as something that dragged the line out into hexameter, making it slog unnecessarily.
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Yesterday, 05:43 PM
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Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Iowa City, IA, USA
Posts: 10,267
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Matt, how about something like "The wraiths of prizes that I should have won"? As you say, you have already made clear that they are shining in the preceding lines.
Susan
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Yesterday, 06:37 PM
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Member
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Join Date: Apr 2022
Location: St. Petersburg, Russia
Posts: 2,038
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Matt Q
I've removed the errant comma that ends the preceding line, which will certainly have confused things a fair bit. Now that it reads, "These shining prizes that I should have won wraith from the woods" is it any clearer that "wraith" is a verb?
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Removing the comma is a brilliant solution, though I can no longer say how easily I would have understood it on first reading. Your use of “purple” helps in loosening up our grammatical categories for second-time readers.
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Yesterday, 08:25 PM
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Member
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Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Halcott, New York
Posts: 9,948
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Leave wraith alone.
It's one of my favorite moments in the poem.
Nemo
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Yesterday, 09:00 PM
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New Member
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Join Date: Jul 2024
Location: New Mexico
Posts: 33
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I'll echo the praises this has had. It just gets better with each reading. "Wraith" as a verb works for me.
You could switch the order of "proud" and "upright" as Clive suggested and it would read more smoothly. But don't mess around too much with this one.
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Today, 05:49 AM
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Member
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Join Date: Sep 2020
Location: York
Posts: 750
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Hi Matt
Quote:
On L8, it’s hard to assess overkill without knowing how you’re reading the poem, and what you think I’m trying to kill. Could you say more?
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When I said "overkill" I meant that the line felt a little overladen to me. The sense of the line is contained in the last 3 words "dance on past". I like "whooping", but do you really need both "leaping" and "spinning"?
How about "and leaping, whooping, dancing, they have passed" ? (That way you get your homophone variant of past)
Joe
Last edited by Joe Crocker; Today at 06:23 AM.
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Today, 08:42 AM
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Member
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Join Date: Aug 2016
Location: Boston, MA
Posts: 4,417
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This is brilliant, Matt. That's my crit.
Nemo's initial observation in #2, imo, confirms the brilliance of this. Tinker if you think you should. But let your instincts lead the way.
The title is fantastically suggestive.
(I would leave wraith alone but I'm not you.)
.
Last edited by Jim Moonan; Today at 08:48 AM.
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Today, 11:57 AM
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Member
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Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: San Diego, CA, USA
Posts: 8,533
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Matt Q
On the parlour game front, I was a little disappointed when I'd finished it to notice that "past"/"past" breaks the pattern, since they're homonyms and all the rest are homophones. And while I guess "past" and "past" are being used in a different sense (adverb and noun), the meaning isn't all that different. Still, I may well be the only person who this troubles!
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That's totally legal according to the French rules of homophone rhymes (and they have a VERY strong tradition of those). Just say "Pardon my French" and don't worry about it.
FWIW, without help I automatically read "wraiths" as a noun instead of a verb, but it still worked that way for me.
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Today, 01:37 PM
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Member
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Join Date: Mar 2024
Location: Anchorage, AK
Posts: 443
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Hi, Matt—
I enjoyed this piece very much.
I wondered if “wraithe” might work to clarify that it is a verb.
“Breath,” “cloth,” “bath,” and “smooth” are all nouns (or adjectives) that become verbs when an “-e” is added. It’s not in the dictionary, but you might get credit for a new coinage.
Glenn
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