[John Riley]

Thanks, Cameron. I value what you say. You do have your finger on my intention.

Roger, thanks for your detailed response. I can see the notes will be helpful. What I do with detailed responses is copy them into the poem's file for revision in a couple of days, when it cools down a bit.

Thanks again to you both.

[Julie Steiner]

A few thoughts, John — take 'em or leave 'em:

With L2's "pink fingers grasping," I wondered why it was important to go out of your way to specify that the narrator is White. Wouldn't "fingers grasping" be more to the point, and more inclusive?

     To die here will not
     make me a saint
     like the giant brass one
     standing on the clifftop,
     turned away from the sea
     to stare over the broad land.

I have never seen an outdoor statue of brass. Sounds very high maintenance. Bronze, perhaps?

If this were mine, I'd probably be unable to resist editorializing in that last line about established religion's preference for those who seem to need help least:

     to stare over the safe pastures.

[John Riley]

Julie, thanks for the comments. I did think of the race aspect of fingers turning pink but that is what happens when I grasp things tightly so I’ll have to live with it. That’s the point. His fingers are turning pink from grasping and squeezing the blood from them. I don’t see it as going out of the way to indicate his race though.

I’m ignorant about metals. You may be right.

I am baffled by the religion comment. What do you mean?

It is interesting that a poem so focused on the individual, one man’s experience, is read as though it is making statements about other people. I guess it’s unescapable.

[Matt Q]

Hi John,

I think this is very strong. I really like the saint turning away from the sea (and I read -- also away from death) toward the land. And while "systematic" stood out a little from the rest of the words on first read, I now like it. There's a sense of inevitably/inescapability about it, and about the N's coming death. "Soon it will be night" worked for me because I read it as a continuation of "I am not the only frail thing."

I didn't hear an echo of "stars in my eyes" in "stars will fly from my ears", I read it more as an escaping spirit or life essence. And the location of the statue didn't trouble me. The cliff edge may be crumbly but the statue is likely to be a little further in.

I see very little to change here. In terms of nits, I only really have this one: "pink fingers" stuck out most for me, not so much as identifying the N as white, someone's got to be after all, but for the flash of (bright) colour among the -- I presume -- grey, black or brown rock. And for me, in terms of the image, this flash of colour draws attention to itself, without any real reason to that I can see.

I guess probably the statue wouldn't be brass, as Julie says, but I like brass for the symbolism. BTW, Julie didn't say you were editorialising, but that she herself would find it hard not to.

best,

Matt

[John Riley]

Thank you, Matt. I particularly glad you warmed up to “systematic.” It is a thematic word from my perspective that I’d hate to lose.

What you say about the pink fingers is something I hadn’t thought of. Although I think the racial aspect of having pink fingers inevitable, the idea of it drawing attention to itself is something else. Thanks.

Your input is always valuable.

[Deborah J. Shore]

Stars will fly from my eyes... DOES work for me in showing both the speaker's proposed motion through space and what he would see while falling. It suggests a relationship to the cosmic, planetary spin--both a harmony and a disorienting, scary falling away from its existence.

I've not read most of the comments but did want to respond to that. And also I vote to keep "the" in the final line. The rhythm of that close has an appropriate spring into that spondaic march.

One senses a greater draw to the sea and the sky than to the broad land or its overseer.

This poem feels really solid--a fine exploration of what feels less than solid.

The conceit of hanging on by a handhold may seem cliche, but there are subtleties of your voice that cause this to stand on its own.

Thank you for the read, John.
Deborah

[John Riley]

Thanks, Deborah. Great to see you here. Looking forward to your poems.

[Deborah J. Shore]

Originally Posted by John Riley

Thanks, Deborah. Great to see you here. Looking forward to your poems.

Thanks, John!

To be honest, I have no idea if I will ever post any of my writing here. I mostly like the idea of having SOME place where I might be able to feel I could come when I'm in a real pickle with a poem--and a place where I'm familiar enough with the abilities of the other writers to know how to sort their feedback.

Whether I will use that or not, I cannot say. For me, it takes a lot of energy to be truly involved in a workshop forum. I have been doing all my free verse editing alone for years with just a little feedback from one person on the technicalities of my metrical poems. However, the friend who often checks the rhythmic expression of my metrical poems has been less available lately, which has inspired me to finally do more than silently lurk in the old Erato threads of metrical questions (as I have been).

I'm glad to see you're posting here (and still writing amid all the things you're dealing with now). Btw, as per your query on social media, I was going to suggest that on Netflix you can watch shows in the languages that you are currently studying (I usually watch shows in Spanish which feels like less of a waste of time than just watching TV and makes shows that I would give more eye rolls to more tolerable).

I really didn't have nits to nit with this poem of yours!
Deborah

[Carl Copeland]

Originally Posted by Deborah J. Shore

I usually watch shows in Spanish which feels like less of a waste of time than just watching TV and makes shows that I would give more eye rolls to more tolerable

One of my best French teachers was a big old TV set that someone gave me when I was living in a tiny chambre de bonne in Paris many years ago. My favorite lessons were reruns of “Dallas” dubbed in French. The things that zhee-AIR and baw-BEE got up to!

[Deborah J. Shore]

Originally Posted by Carl Copeland

One of my best French teachers was a big old TV set that someone gave me when I was living in a tiny chambre de bonne in Paris many years ago. My favorite lessons were reruns of “Dallas” dubbed in French. The things that zhee-AIR and baw-BEE got up to!

HA! Yes, I have a lot more patience for story lines when I'm exercising that language center.