[Nick McRae]

Originally Posted by Jim Moonan

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Nick: Hip hop isn't for everyone, but some of Kendrick's work is worth a look. For someone who grew up in poverty in Compton, surrounded by gang culture, his work is revolutionary in the genre, and in American black culture."


Hmm. In the main, I don't think they are documenting what it is like growing up surrounded by gang culture as much as they are exploiting it. Self-absorption, fame and destructive language will get you somewhere fast: nowhere. Nowhere is where the two have officially arrived. Grab your popcorn and enjoy the show.

I find it impossible to separate the garbage from the flowers that is hip hop/rap. I recognize the gift, but reject the gift giver.

See Mark's link above.

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You've got to be careful generalizing, because the artists and writing are varied.

Almost all of Drake's music is pop that's designed to generate sales and radio play, and it doesn't pretend to be anything else.

Where some of Lamar's earliest albums are very poetic and intentionally conscious. And it's funny you mention, as his first major album was about documenting gang culture in L.A., and how those living in it struggle to survive and thrive.

Then there's an entire underground scene, which is where the real verse and poetry happens, because these are the guys who aren't constrained by radio play and sales. This might sound familiar to some.

I don't disagree that there can be an element of exploiting gang culture, but if Drake tried to emulate Robert Frost he'd still be living in a slum in Toronto. Hip hop audiences are largely African Americans, so the lyricism usually reflects the lives these people are living.

Given the chance, most of them would likely prefer to forego the music industry altogether, but there usually aren't many great alternatives.

[W T Clark]

I would not be as confident as Jim to put down this music. I have learnt more about compression and energy from most rappers than from some poets of the past esteemed highly here. Rap has true authentic energy combined with craft: twofold vision; in this sense: it is a truer formalism than half the versified metrical efforts I am told is "formalist". Not that Kendrick can hold me like Blake or Dickinson or Mandelstam; but to deny his energy would be braver than I am. Of course much of it is trash; but what isn't very much trash? — And to deny all rappers when I hear them every day is beyond me! — And To Pimp a Butterfly has an effect I would not disdain.

As for this talk of pettiness; it is true: yes John. but show me a poet who isn't and I will show you ten. As with everything: silliness is stranger and older than we know.

[W T Clark]

Yeah, I'm out the way, yeah, I'm low, okay
Yeah, the island right here's remote, okay
I ain't thinkin' about no reaper
Nigga, I'm reapin' what I sow, okay
Got a Benjamin and a Jackson all in my house like I'm Joe, okay
Hellcat, made his homeboys and them type sell they soul, okay
Everybody wanna be demon till they get chipped by your throwaway
And I might do a show a day, once a lame, always a lame
Oh, you thought the money, the power or fame would make you go away?
Have you ever played have-you-ever? Okay, nigga, let's play
Have you ever walked your enemy down, like, with a poker face?
Have you ever paid five hundred thou', like, to an open case?
Well, I have, and I failed at both, but I came out straight
I hate when a rapper talk about guns, then somebody die
They turn into nuns, then hop online, like: Pray for my city
He fakin' for likes and digital hugs
His daddy a killer, he wanna be junior, they must've forgot the shit that they done
Dementia must run in his family, but let it get shaky, I'll park his son
The very first time I shot me a Drac', the homie had told me to aim it this way
I didn't point down enough, today I'll show you I learned from those mistakes
Somebody had told me that you got a ring, on God, I'm ready to double the wage
I'd rather do that than let a Canadian nigga make Pac turn in his grave
Cutthroat business, you got shit twisted
What is it? The braids?
I hurt your feelings? You don't wanna work with me no more? Okay
It's three GOATs left, and I seen two of them kissin' and huggin' on stage
I love 'em to death, and in eight bars, I'll explain that phrase, huh
It's nothin' nobody can tell me, huh
I don't wanna talk on no celly, huh
You know I got language barriers, huh
It's no accent you can sell me, huh
Yeah, Cole and Aubrey know I'm a selfish nigga
The crown is heavy, huh
I pray they my real friends, if not, I'm YNW Melly
I don't like you poppin' shit at Pharrell, for him, I inherit the beef
Yeah, fuck all that pushin' P, let me see you push a T
You better off spinnin' again on him, you think about pushin' me
He's Terrence Thornton, I'm Terence Crawford, yeah, I'm whoopin' feet
We ain't gotta get personal, this a friendly fade, you should keep it that way
I know some shit about niggas that make Gunna Wunna look like a saint
This ain't been about critics, not about gimmicks, not about who the greatest
It's always been about love and hate, now let me say I'm the biggest hater
I hate the way that you walk, the way that you talk, I hate the way that you dress
I hate the way that you sneak diss, if I catch flight, it's gon' be direct
We hate the bitches you fuck, 'cause they confuse themself with real women
And notice, I said we, it's not just me, I'm what the culture feelin'
How many more fairytale stories 'bout your life till we had enough?
How many more black features till you finally feel that you're black enough?
I like Drake with the melodies, I don't like Drake when he act tough
You gon' make a nigga bring back Puff, let me see if Chubbs really crash somethin'
Yeah, my first one like my last one, it's a classic, you don't have one
Let your core audience stomach that, then tell 'em where you get your abs from
V12, it's a fast one, baow-baow-baow, last one
Headshot for the year, you better walk around like Daft Punk

[E. Shaun Russell]

Originally Posted by W T Clark

I would not be as confident as Jim to put down this music. I have learnt more about compression and energy from most rappers than from some poets of the past esteemed highly here. Rap has true authentic energy combined with craft: twofold vision; in this sense: it is a truer formalism than half the versified metrical efforts I am told is "formalist". Not that Kendrick can hold me like Blake or Dickinson or Mandelstam; but to deny his energy would be braver than I am. Of course much of it is trash; but what isn't very much trash? — And to deny all rappers when I hear them every day is beyond me! — And To Pimp a Butterfly has an effect I would not disdain.

As for this talk of pettiness; it is true: yes John. but show me a poet who isn't and I will show you ten. As with everything: silliness is stranger and older than we know.

Yes, I very much agree with this. I teach analysis with a "music and image" theme, and most students choose music videos as their primary source for a semester-long sequence of assignments and papers. For the last couple of years, Kendrick Lamar has been the most popular choice, and the only one who comes anywhere close is Taylor Swift. What's particularly eye-opening is how much the students are able to analyze in his lyrics, videos, and his musical choices. I'm not personally a hip-hop fan (and generally like very little "pop" music), but I can also very much appreciate that there's a lot of excellent artistry in the genre.



Check out this video for "Count Me Out," featuring Helen Mirren as a therapist, and Lamar delving into his personal insecurities.

[John Riley]

Cam, yes, silliness is universal. In my 12-step group I’ve seen people go to jail for serious time from violence that happened from being “disrespected.” People relapsing a dying behind hurt feelings over nothing. Prisons full of people who were “disrespected.” We have an entire fascist movement over here because people who couldn’t be bothered to get an education feel disrespected by educated liberals. (I’m not saying all fascist are uneducated but it’s the base.) Yep, I’m tired of it all. The whole fucking world is one big Scot-Irish feud. Yes, it’s a shame that one of these talented and successful men can’t shake his head and walk away.

What do I know? Maybe one has by now.

Why did Tupac die? Before your time but same BS. (No. It isn’t only in the African American part of the world.)

[Jim Moonan]

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I can't help but notice that Rap and the Bible are in tandem on this Board... Take it as you will. I see Armageddon : )

If God and Satan rap battled... Here's an interesting manifestation of the rap genre: https: //www.youtube.com/@erb

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[Carl Copeland]

Originally Posted by E. Shaun Russell

Check out this video for "Count Me Out," featuring Helen Mirren as a therapist, and Lamar delving into his personal insecurities.

Blocked by UMG “in my country.” Crying shame. Kendrick is unknown to me, but Mirren is never less than brilliant.