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  #1  
Unread 11-05-2024, 06:30 PM
Glenn Wright Glenn Wright is online now
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Default Sextus Propertius, Elegies 1.12

Sextus Propertius was born in 50 B.C.E in Assisi. He came to Rome as a young man and became one of Maecenas’ protégés, entering a circle of poets including Vergil and Horace (whom, oddly, he never mentions). He was a close friend of Ovid. He is best known for his four books of Elegies, the first two dedicated almost exclusively, like the poem below, to his tumultuous love affair with Cynthia. His later poems show the influence of the Alexandrian “neoteric” school founded by Callimachus and best represented in Latin poetry by Catullus—characterized by shocking imagery, use of themes previously considered too vulgar for poetry, and interesting and original use of references to mythology. Perhaps for this reason, Propertius was greatly admired by some early 20th century poets in the Imagist and Confessional schools. Both Pound and Robert Lowell did translations of Propertius, and Pound wrote “Homage to Sextus Propertius.”

Note: In Classical poetry, an “elegy” is any poem on any subject, happy or sad, written in “elegiac couplets,” alternating hexameter and pentameter lines. In modern English language poetry, an elegy is a serious, dignified poem expressing a tone of tempered regret for a great loss, usually a death. In music an elegy is a composition in a minor key expressing grief. Latin elegies are rarely mourning poems.

Elegies 1.12
by Sextus Propertius

Why won’t you stop with your false accusation of laziness, Romans?
     Cynthia, so far away,       makes my unhappy delay.
So many miles are dividing us, keeping her far from my bedroom,
     just as the streams of Ukraine       far from the Po will remain;
Cynthia doesn’t encourage my usual loving caresses;
     feeling no hug, I can’t hear,       sweetly, her voice in my ear.
Once I was pleasing to her: no one else at that time, as it happened,
     had the same skill to give more       faith with the love that I swore.
Surely some god overthrew me: have we been made victims of envy?
     What choice Promethean plant,       splitting us, could so enchant?
No, I am not who I was any longer; long travels change lasses.
     As in the tiniest trice       love flies away from our eyes.
Now, for the first time, alone, I am forced to know long, lonely nighttimes,
     even my voice in my ear:       wretched and heavy to hear.
Happy is he who was able to weep for a girl who was present;
     doubtlessly, Love can enjoy       sprinklings of tears from a boy.
Or, if the scorned one is able to alter the heat of his passion,
     pleasures can also be had       changing one’s mistress, my lad.
I am forbidden to love any other or cease adoration:
     Cynthia’s number was one,       she’ll be my last when life’s done.
————————
Edits:
L2: which from my Cynthia may       cause an unwanted delay? > Cynthia, so far away,      makes my unhappy delay.
L5: does not > doesn’t
L6: nor with her hug do I hear, > feeling no hug, I can’t hear
L8: faithfully love that I swore. > faith with the love that I swore.
L14: seems vile and heavy to hear. > : wretched and heavy to hear.
L20: Cynthia was number one, > Cynthia’s number was one,




Original Latin (from Perseus Project, Tufts U)

Elegiae I.xii
Sexti Properti

Quid mihi desidiae non cessas fingere crimen,
     quod faciat nobis Cynthia, Roma, moram?
tam multa illa meo divisa est milia lecto,
     quantum Hypanis Veneto dissidet Eridano;
nec mihi consuetos amplexu nutrit amores
     Cynthia, nec nostra dulcis in aure sonat.
olim gratis eram: non ullo tempore cuiquam
     contigit ut simili posset amare fide.
invidiae fuimus: num me deus obruit? an quae
     lecta Prometheis dividit herba iugis?
non sum ego qui fueram: mutat via longa puellas.
     quantus in exiguo tempore fugit amor!
nunc primum longas solus cognoscere noctes
     cogor et ipse meis auribus esse gravis.
felix, qui potuit praesenti flere puellae
     (non nihil aspersus gaudet Amor lacrimis),
aut, si despectus, potuit mutare calores
     (sunt quoque translato gaudia servitio).
mi neque amare aliam neque ab hac desistere fas est:
     Cynthia prima fuit, Cynthia finis erit.


Crib:
Elegies 1.12
by Sextus Propertius

Why don’t you stop making up an accusation of apathy for me,
which Cynthia may make as a delay for us, Rome?
She has been separated from my bed by as many miles
as the Hypanis [Bug River] is opposed to/is separated from the Venetian Po.
Neither does Cynthia nourish/encourage my accustomed affections with a hug,
nor does [her voice] sound sweetly in our ear.
Once I was pleasing [to her]: to no other man at any time
as it happened, was it possible to love with similar faithfulness.
Were we [victims of] envy/hatred/the evil eye: surely a god overcame me? Or what
choice Promethean herb divides [us], joined together?
I am not who I was any more: a long road changes girls.
How much love flees in a short time!
Now for the first time, alone, I am compelled to know long nights
and I, myself, to be heavy/mournful to my own ears.
Happy, he who could weep for a girl who was present/actually there
(No doubt Love delights in a sprinkling of tears),
Or, the scorned one could change his desires/heats
(There are also joys in transferred enslavement).
It is permitted to me neither to love another woman, nor to stop [loving] this one:
Cynthia was the first; Cynthia will be the last/end.

Last edited by Glenn Wright; 11-10-2024 at 10:30 PM.
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  #2  
Unread 11-06-2024, 04:02 PM
Carl Copeland Carl Copeland is offline
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Hi, Glenn. I still have my doubts about whether classical verse benefits from being sweetened with rhyme, but you and Julie like it, so fine. The problem for me here is the twisting and inverting you have to do to get those rhymes.

L2: I had trouble with several of the “pentameters,” but the first, in particular, I had to mentally rearrange to see if I could get the gist. To be fair, I don’t understand the crib either. She’ll hear rumors that he’s being lazy and delay her return for that reason?

L4: Do you want the flagrantly anachronistic “Ukraine”? I don’t think that term came into use till early modern times.

L5: The natural stressing would be “does NOT.” Luckily, you can get the stress on “does” by contracting it to “doesn’t.”

L6: This pentameter is twisted out of shape too. It could mean he doesn’t hear her voice when she hugs him. Not very logical, I admit, but do you want the ambiguity?

L8: Another convoluted pentameter. Wouldn’t someone who had “the same skill” give similarly faithful love (as in the crib), rather than more faithful? “That I swore” is a confusing rhyme-driven addition.

L10: You need commas around “splitting us.”

L11: This line is apparently close to the original, but strange nonetheless. I first thought the N was a girl, but this isn’t Sappho, so I guess not. Then I thought she’d been changed by her travels, so he doesn’t feel the same way about her any more. That doesn’t work well in context, so by process of elimination, I decided it must mean “I am no longer who I was (in her eyes).” BTW, this is the only hexameter line to end on a stress, and it’s followed by the only two hemistiches with “feminine” endings. Greek and presumably Latin elegiacs are riddled with irregularities, but I don’t think either of these is a permissible variation.

L14: The natural stressing is “seems VILE.”

L16: I’d lowercase “Doubtlessly” and add a comma after it.

L17: I don’t think “or, if” makes a grammatical connection here. The sentence comes out: “Happy is he who was able to weep … or [he may be happy?] if he can alter the heat of his passion.”

L20: Natural stressing would be “was NUMber.”

I hope some of this is helpful. Thanks for another great lesson in Latin lit!
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  #3  
Unread 11-06-2024, 08:45 PM
Glenn Wright Glenn Wright is online now
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Hi, Carl

Thanks so much for your detailed critiques! I appreciate the time and effort you always put into your responses.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Carl Copeland View Post
L2: I had trouble with several of the “pentameters,” but the first, in particular, I had to mentally rearrange to see if I could get the gist. To be fair, I don’t understand the crib either. She’ll hear rumors that he’s being lazy and delay her return for that reason?
I think it means that the N has been moping and staying home because his girlfriend is away. His friends are taking him to task for not participating in the social whirl. He tells them to blame Cynthia. I’ll try to make it clearer. Apparently their relationship is on hiatus and she may have defected to a distant rival (although this may just be the N’s suspicion.). Their relationship seems very similar to that of Catullus and Clodia/Lesbia. The identity of Cynthia is something of a mystery. Some sources suggest that she was a courtesan. Apuleius, almost 200 years after the fact, identified her as Hostia, a wealthy married woman who was notorious for her many affairs. Sound familiar? As a married woman, she probably had to accompany her husband on trips, or may have ducked down to Baiae for some fun in the sun. Interestingly, Propertius only mentions her lovers, never her husband..

L4: Do you want the flagrantly anachronistic “Ukraine”? I don’t think that term came into use till early modern times.
The Hypanis River is the Bug, which empties into the Black Sea near Odesa. I liked the precision of “Ukraine.” Other translators use either “Russian,” which is equally anachronistic, or “Sarmatian,” which sends the reader to google the ancient geography.

L5: The natural stressing would be “does NOT.” Luckily, you can get the stress on “does” by contracting it to “doesn’t.”
Good suggestion

L6: This pentameter is twisted out of shape too. It could mean he doesn’t hear her voice when she hugs him. Not very logical, I admit, but do you want the ambiguity?
I see your point. I’ll try to clarify this

L8: Another convoluted pentameter. Wouldn’t someone who had “the same skill” give similarly faithful love (as in the crib), rather than more faithful? “That I swore” is a confusing rhyme-driven addition.
I had hoped to suggest a hint of self-mockery with “skill” and “that I swore,” indicating, perhaps, that the N is proud of his lovemaking and regards it as more of a performance than a sincere expression of his passion. The caesura after “. . .had the same skill to give more” invites the reader to complete the line with “pleasure” or something similar. The restrained “faith” comes as a mildly humorous surprise. His willingness to consider switching mistresses in LL17-18 make the intensity of his faithfulness somewhat suspect.

L10: You need commas around “splitting us.” Done.

L11: This line is apparently close to the original, but strange nonetheless. I first thought the N was a girl, but this isn’t Sappho, so I guess not. Then I thought she’d been changed by her travels, so he doesn’t feel the same way about her any more. That doesn’t work well in context, so by process of elimination, I decided it must mean “I am no longer who I was (in her eyes).” BTW, this is the only hexameter line to end on a stress, and it’s followed by the only two hemistiches with “feminine” endings. Greek and presumably Latin elegiacs are riddled with irregularities, but I don’t think either of these is a permissible variation.
This puzzled me, too. I supposed that he meant that both he and his girlfriend will change during their time apart, putting the continuation of their affair at risk. I had already changed “girls” to “lasses.”

L14: The natural stressing is “seems VILE.” Fixed.

L16: I’d lowercase “Doubtlessly” and add a comma after it. Done.

L17: I don’t think “or, if” makes a grammatical connection here. The sentence comes out: “Happy is he who was able to weep … or [he may be happy?] if he can alter the heat of his passion.” I followed the punctuation in the Perseus Project text, which was, of course, added by an editor— in this case, Vincent Katz. In his English translation, he got rid of the parentheses and made two sentences out of LL15-18. I’ll revisit these.

L20: Natural stressing would be “was NUMber.” I fixed it, but I like it even less than what I had before.

I hope some of this is helpful. Thanks for another great lesson in Latin lit!
Thanks again, Carl! These comments were very helpful!

Last edited by Glenn Wright; 11-07-2024 at 04:18 PM.
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