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-   -   Osama Bin Laden (https://www.ablemuse.com/erato/showthread.php?t=14078)

W.F. Lantry 05-03-2011 11:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Adam Elgar (Post 196793)
Do any of us think that even one fellow member will go away from this thread thinking differently from before? Still less, do any of us think that the people who make and carry out foreign policy are paying attention to us?

Nope. But this is America, after all, so it's time for merchandise! Get your credit card out! Here's what you could buy:

(...)

•T-shirts. Already, there are hundreds of designs. The website Tshirthell.com, has sold hundreds of $20 T-shirts that show a stick figure version of a victorious, flag-carrying American standing over the dead stick figure (complete with scraggly beard) of bin Laden. “We made a batch of them and already need to make a bunch more,” says Mika Larson, executive director.
A $21.35 T-shirt on Zazzle.com simply says: “Obama killed Osama.”
•Buttons. In making a marketable joke of bin Laden’s burial at sea, a $5 button sold on CafePress.com shows a photo of bin Laden under the line “Fish Food.”
•Coffee mugs. A coffee mug shows bin Laden in a gun sight under these words: Death by U.S. Navy Seals, May 1, 2011. It sells for $15 at CafePress.com.

(...)

I cut that short, to save you embarrassment if you're reading this overseas. And lest you think I'm making this up, while muttering to yourself "not even in America would they do something like that...", here's the link:

http://wonkette.com/444955/dead-osam...al#more-444955

and here's the T-shirt: http://www.tshirthell.com/funny-shir...laden-is-dead/

It's the number one selling t-shirt, as of this evening.

Twenty bucks. Plus shipping.

Thanks,

Bill

John Whitworth 05-04-2011 12:42 AM

I am trying to think whether I would prefer a Bin Laden Tee shirt or a Wills and Kate one. Hard choice! I think I'll have one with Emily Dickinson on it. Would that be OK?

Seree Zohar 05-04-2011 01:11 AM

David R & RogerBob
Correct; not one single word of the Song at the Sea lauds the death of the Egyptians; rather, it is a song of thanksgiving to God for redeeming the Israelites. And no, I'm not going to delve into every single word of it here to show that. There's plenty of online material for the curious.
FWIW, there was not one iota of noticeable/public celebration here. Interestingly, peopled looked concerned, and merely nodded or remarked something of the nature of so it's done. A man who heads an organisation still plotting acts of mass murder by convincing others to self-murder (suicide bombing) has been eliminated, which might buy time for collecting additional information that may prevent other attacks.

Philip Quinlan 05-04-2011 01:21 AM

This is interesting:

http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0933935.html

That's exactly how terrorism works. Once in a while you engineer a little fear, just to show what you can do, then sit back and watch the fear do its work.

Awful lot of dollars spent killing one man. Can't think of a better way to undermine Western economies.

The way to beat terrorism is to refuse to change as a consequence of it.

BTW bin Laden once said in an interview:

"The difference between us and the Americans is that we love death"

so it might be said, cynically, that that is another thing we gave him that he wanted. I would have far sooner seen him paraded, shamed and sent to trial. That would have sent a clearer message about how we do things.

Philip

John Beaton 05-04-2011 02:05 AM

Law and order prevail in civilized territories. Where there is none, vigilante justice emerges. Where it is too zealous to adhere to "innocent until proven guilty", you get lynch mobs, and the innnocent can suffer.

The world has civilized territories. But they are territories. Without a global system of law and enforcement, global vigilanteism is needed. If it is principled, it does a necessary job.

That is what I think we have seen.

The U.S. took out a known evil-doer, and they, from Obama who gave the command, to the Navy Seals who risked their lives to implement it, are to be commended.

What went on in the streets is secondary. Did people rejoice in a human receiving a bullet through the head? Or did people who had suffered a tragic loss just want a way to come together and share the knowledge that the criminal who had inflicted so much pain on them was dead? Probably some of both.

Let's not allow scriptural interpretation to blind us to the facts. Osama killed people. There are conspiracy theories, but none would convince any reasonable person that America would inflict 9/11 on itself. So these theories can, and should be, dismissed.

The people expressed their emotions. They had suffered loss. They felt that some retribution had occurred. They are not thereby barbarous. They are fellow humans dealing with their lives. I don’t feel like judging them.

John

John Whitworth 05-04-2011 02:10 AM

Well, I don't know, Philip. Parading and shaming people was certainly how the Romans went about things. Cleopatra preferred death. Parading and shaming people is what Communists do, isn't it?

Churchill didn't want the Nuremberg trials. He wanted the men shot quickly. Maybe he was right, maybe it was good to have the trials and get everything written down. But Goering wasn't shamed. He revelled in it. I'm afraid I admired his courage, as I admired the courage of Saddam Hussein. Of course if you were a good Nazi fairly well down the pecking order and grovelled a bit then you were 'rehabilitated'. Humph!

Oh, I said I admired their courage. So I do. And they were horrible men who deserved death. As I genuinely believe does Tony Blair the war criminal.

Rory Waterman 05-04-2011 04:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by John Whitworth (Post 196938)
Tony Blair the war criminal.

He is, he is. But bear in mind that the Conservatives fully supported the war. Of our three main parties only the Lib Dems opposed it, and I feel quite justified in saying that they might have had other motivations. You can't score a party-political point out of this one, John. 4 out of 5 of our citizens opposed the war but both sides of the house, generally speaking, supported it.

Bill, the merchandise (and its army of zealous purchasers) is no surprise to me. If a group of soldiers can drape a US flag over the face of a statue of Saddam Hussein, why wouldn't T-shirts, mugs, pin badges etc celebrating Osama bin Laden's killing as a moment of Ameircan glory rocket to number one in the sales rankings? America is a wonderful country in so many ways, founded on great ideals, but like my (American) wife I'm glad I'm not there now.

John Whitworth 05-04-2011 05:49 AM

No I can't, Rory. And I wasn't trying to. Just suggesting there is a politician among us who deserves to be stepped on. Curiously (no party political point here) most of the OLD Tories were very hesitant. It was the young ones who were gung-ho. And of course you must remember Blair lied in his teeth and lots of us believed him. Personally I feel no animus towards George Dubbya at all. Not my business. Blair for putting us there and Brown for making sure our soldiers had no equipment. Twin gallows then.

Rory Waterman 05-04-2011 06:24 AM

John,

Have a look at the 2003 levels of support for the war in the House of Commons. I don't think you've done your homework.

John Whitworth 05-04-2011 08:06 AM

You may well be right, Rory. But we can still hang Blair and Brown, can't we? Pretty please.


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